Timing for dummies

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Timing for dummies

Post by Rezizter »

on the 8v motor i know that when i turn the dizzy the idle gets better or worse

Question is, could anyone explain in detail, how to do this properly, perhaps how to use a timing light properly, and how do you know if you are TDC, or 6 degrees tdc, or well any degree Tdc.
Should timing be done at certain intervals, if so how?

Something thats always puzzled me.

Any input would be appreciated

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Re: Timing for dummies

Post by Digit Riaan »

Rezizter wrote:on the 8v motor i know that when i turn the dizzy the idle gets better or worse

Question is, could anyone explain in detail, how to do this properly, perhaps how to use a timing light properly, and how do you know if you are TDC, or 6 degrees tdc, or well any degree Tdc.
Should timing be done at certain intervals, if so how?

Something thats always puzzled me.

Any input would be appreciated

Regards

Shaun
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Re: Timing for dummies

Post by neighbourhood terror »

In short you should be messing with it. The timing on your car (I assume you're refering to the Velocity) is controlled by the EFI, thats why you don't have any advance mechanism on the distributer. There is a base timing setting which which is set at a specific engine RPM but once thats set you leave the distributer alone. Moving the distributer can mess up the fuel consumption and cause engine damaging detonation and rob you of performance
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Re: Timing for dummies

Post by Torker »

neighbourhood terror wrote:In short you shouldn't be messing with it.
Fixed up :cool:
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Re: Timing for dummies

Post by neighbourhood terror »

Torker wrote:
neighbourhood terror wrote:In short you shouldn't be messing with it.
Fixed up :cool:
Ah yes ... thanks :wink:
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Re: Timing for dummies

Post by dhirennaidoo »

neighbourhood, where do you get those renders from your sig?
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Re: Timing for dummies

Post by neighbourhood terror »

dhirennaidoo wrote:neighbourhood, where do you get those renders from your sig?
From here > http://database.mangacars.fr/categories.php?cat_id=256
Found one of a Mk1 then edited it to match my car
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Re: Timing for dummies

Post by Rezizter »

Thanks porno ster, exactly what i was looking for.

Shot for the help guys, good thing you told me about the efi... or else i would have had one broken little velo.

Fortunately i have a few mates with carb cars, so i'll practice my new found skills on their cars :evil: (i can see alot of people having to walk from next week :oops:

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Re: Timing for dummies

Post by MacMan »

Rezizter wrote:on the 8v motor i know that when i turn the dizzy the idle gets better or worse

Question is, could anyone explain in detail, how to do this properly, perhaps how to use a timing light properly, and how do you know if you are TDC, or 6 degrees tdc, or well any degree Tdc.
Should timing be done at certain intervals, if so how?

Something thats always puzzled me.

Any input would be appreciated

Regards

Shaun
The reason the idling changes when you turn the distributor is because you are advancing and retarding the ignition timing.

To set the timing on an 8V VW motor, you need to line up the 3 timing marks and then adjust the ignition timing using a timing light.

Lining up the 3 timing marks:

The mark on the cam pulley is a line on the inside of the pulley (facing the battery) and at TDC this mark must be level with the bottom of the tappet cover.

Image


The rotor must point to the mark on the side of the distributor (you will need to take the plastic cover under the rotor off to see it).

Image


There are 2 "flat pieces" on the flywheel and the mark you are looking for will be in between these 2 "flat pieces". This mark is either a punch mark (small round hole) and / or a v-type line cut into the flywheel and this mark must be in the middle of the inspection hole on the gearbox.

Image


If you chose to use the punch mark (small round hole) then the motor is now at TDC. If you chose to use the V-type mark cut into the flywheel, then the motor is now at 6 degrees BTDC.

Adjusting the ignition timing:

Carb:

* Disconnect the vacuum pipe going to the vacuum advance unit on the distributor.
* Loosen the 13mm bolt that holds the clamp on the distributor shaft to prevent it from turning.
* If you used the punch mark (small round hole) then you will need an adjustable timing light and set it to 6 degrees advance. Then shoot the timing light at the mark on the flywheel and turn the distributor until the mark appears in the middle of the inspection hole.
* If you used the V-type mark cut into the flywheel, then you can use a static timing light, or an adjustable timing light set to 0 degrees. Then shoot the timing light at the mark on the flywheel and turn the distributor until the mark appears in the middle of the inspection hole.
* Tighten the 13mm bolt that holds the clamp on the distributor shaft to prevent it from turning.


MP9:

* You will need to get a VAG-COM, connect the diagnostic cable to the diagnostic port in your car and go to Group 1 under basic settings in the Engine menu. This will increase the revs to +- 1500rpm.
* Loosen the 13mm bolt that holds the clamp on the distributor shaft to prevent it from turning.
* If you used the punch mark (small round hole) then you will need an adjustable timing light and set it to 6 degrees advance. Then shoot the timing light at the mark on the flywheel and turn the distributor until the mark appears in the middle of the inspection hole.
* If you used the V-type mark cut into the flywheel, then you can use a static timing light, or an adjustable timing light set to 0 degrees. Then shoot the timing light at the mark on the flywheel and turn the distributor until the mark appears in the middle of the inspection hole.
* Tighten the 13mm bolt that holds the clamp on the distributor shaft to prevent it from turning.
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Re: Timing for dummies

Post by Rezizter »

gosh macman, thanks very much, thats exactly what i wanted to know.

Thanks again, brilliant write up.

Regards

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Re: Timing for dummies

Post by dhirennaidoo »

neighbourhood terror wrote:
dhirennaidoo wrote:neighbourhood, where do you get those renders from your sig?
From here > http://database.mangacars.fr/categories.php?cat_id=256
Found one of a Mk1 then edited it to match my car
:wink:
Shot! :grin:

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Post by Dj lost »

U only line up all 3markings for cambelt changes or when u change cam to get belt on and have all 3 perfect again
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Re: Timing for dummies

Post by ivanjapoeroets »

I have a 1.8 golf 1 i took it in to replace the waterpump and the timing belt but now it wont start, the destributor is in line but im not sure how to align the pullies on witch the belt runs, please help.. im blank, tried everything my flat head could think of exept trying to align the pullies.. the top pulley has a mark on it but i dont see another mark on the engine like the bottom pulley has, i think that might be the problem but im not sure, pleassseeee
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Re: Timing for dummies

Post by Dub rox »

Sorrey for being a noob but if u use the 6° btdc mark on the crank pulley should'nt you have a 6°btdc mark on your cam pulley aswell?
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Re: Timing for dummies

Post by Ashveer03 »

Post number 9 has very clear guidelines.

1. The mark on the cam pulley must be at the bottom of the tappet cover, on the front of the engine ie. The radiator side.
2. The bellhousing has a pointer that the V slot on the flywheel must line up to.
3. The distributor has a small mark that the rotor must line up to

Edit. Never realize the date of this post.

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Re: Timing for dummies

Post by Dub rox »

Ashveer03 wrote:Post number 9 has very clear guidelines.

1. The mark on the cam pulley must be at the bottom of the tappet cover, on the front of the engine ie. The radiator side.
2. The bellhousing has a pointer that the V slot on the flywheel must line up to.
3. The distributor has a small mark that the rotor must line up to

Edit. Never realize the date of this post.

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This states that the cam timing should be at tdc but you can use the v mark on the flywheel wich is 6°btdc as tdc on rhe crank. Does not make sence as pannic staded that the v mark is 10° btdc and if both rhe marks are present use the 0. If you think about it they should both allign. Both at tdc when you use a ajustable timing light and both at 6° btdc when using a static timing light.

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Re: Timing for dummies

Post by Ashveer03 »

I understand what u mean..

Basically setting the crank to the diamond v mark if its +-6 degrees and the cam to tdc will be incorrect cam to crank correlation.

Imo both should be at TDC.

It gets a little confusing because some flywheels dont have the dimple/punch mark, they just have the diamond V mark, and some dont have the diamond v mark. Some Aftermarket flywheels are also not made to spec at times.

What i personally do is,
1.Find crank tdc by my own means (get no1 piston to max height, make my own mark if theres a problem finding an "original" mark)

2. Set cam to tdc (i use the upper part of the cylinder head because its annoying to look at the bottom of the tappet cover)

3. Adjust the distributor to whatever the spec is.

People may disagree or trashtalk my method but it worked every time for me..

Guys with decades of experience on these engines will have proper bulletproof methods..

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Re: Timing for dummies

Post by Dub rox »

Ashveer03 wrote:I understand what u mean..

Basically setting the crank to the diamond v mark if its +-6 degrees and the cam to tdc will be incorrect cam to crank correlation.

Imo both should be at TDC.

It gets a little confusing because some flywheels dont have the dimple/punch mark, they just have the diamond V mark, and some dont have the diamond v mark. Some Aftermarket flywheels are also not made to spec at times.

What i personally do is,
1.Find crank tdc by my own means (get no1 piston to max height, make my own mark if theres a problem finding an "original" mark)

2. Set cam to tdc (i use the upper part of the cylinder head because its annoying to look at the bottom of the tappet cover)

3. Adjust the distributor to whatever the spec is.

People may disagree or trashtalk my method but it worked every time for me..

Guys with decades of experience on these engines will have proper bulletproof methods..

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Just what i was thinking. It just does'nt ad up accept if the one compensates for the other. Ie using the 0 mark on both and advancing the ignition to 6° and if you use the 6° btdc mark on the flywheel you need to set your ignition to 12° advance accept for the abcence of the 6°btdc mark on the cam pulley and the12° btdc on the flywheel.

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Re: Timing for dummies

Post by Dub rox »

Dub rox wrote:
Ashveer03 wrote:I understand what u mean..

Basically setting the crank to the diamond v mark if its +-6 degrees and the cam to tdc will be incorrect cam to crank correlation.

Imo both should be at TDC.

It gets a little confusing because some flywheels dont have the dimple/punch mark, they just have the diamond V mark, and some dont have the diamond v mark. Some Aftermarket flywheels are also not made to spec at times.

What i personally do is,
1.Find crank tdc by my own means (get no1 piston to max height, make my own mark if theres a problem finding an "original" mark)

2. Set cam to tdc (i use the upper part of the cylinder head because its annoying to look at the bottom of the tappet cover)

3. Adjust the distributor to whatever the spec is.

People may disagree or trashtalk my method but it worked every time for me..

Guys with decades of experience on these engines will have proper bulletproof methods..

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Just what i was thinking. It just does'nt ad up accept if the one compensates for the other. Ie using the 0 mark on both and advancing the ignition to 6° and if you use the 6° btdc mark on the flywheel you need to set your ignition to 12° advance accept for the abcence of the 6°btdc mark on the cam pulley and the12° btdc on the flywheel.

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Just confusing. Use the 0 marker and that is that.

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Re: Timing for dummies

Post by Dub rox »

Dub rox wrote:
Dub rox wrote:
Ashveer03 wrote:I understand what u mean..

Basically setting the crank to the diamond v mark if its +-6 degrees and the cam to tdc will be incorrect cam to crank correlation.

Imo both should be at TDC.

It gets a little confusing because some flywheels dont have the dimple/punch mark, they just have the diamond V mark, and some dont have the diamond v mark. Some Aftermarket flywheels are also not made to spec at times.

What i personally do is,
1.Find crank tdc by my own means (get no1 piston to max height, make my own mark if theres a problem finding an "original" mark)

2. Set cam to tdc (i use the upper part of the cylinder head because its annoying to look at the bottom of the tappet cover)

3. Adjust the distributor to whatever the spec is.

People may disagree or trashtalk my method but it worked every time for me..

Guys with decades of experience on these engines will have proper bulletproof methods..

Sent from my SM-J500F using Tapatalk
Just what i was thinking. It just does'nt ad up accept if the one compensates for the other. Ie using the 0 mark on both and advancing the ignition to 6° and if you use the 6° btdc mark on the flywheel you need to set your ignition to 12° advance accept for the abcence of the 6°btdc mark on the cam pulley and the12° btdc on the flywheel.

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Just confusing. Use the 0 marker and that is that.

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Way i see it is it takes the signal from the hall sensor 6° to go from the dizzy to the ecu and then to the coilpack and all the way back to the dizzy at 1500rpm. Could be wrong.....

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Re: Timing for dummies

Post by panic-mechanic »

What? Eish.
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panic-mechanic wrote:What? Eish.
Or it could just be that it has to fire at 6° atdcImage

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Re: Timing for dummies

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Dub rox wrote:
panic-mechanic wrote:What? Eish.
Or it could just be that it has to fire at 6° atdcImage

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My point being that you can not use a static timing light on these motors?

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Re: Timing for dummies

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Dub rox wrote:
Dub rox wrote:
panic-mechanic wrote:What? Eish.
Or it could just be that it has to fire at 6° atdcImage

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My point being that you can not use a static timing light on these motors?

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All melarkey aside now. Figured out why the 6°btdc mark is on the flywheel. It is there for setting the ignition timing. If you allign your tdc marks, the one on the camshaft pulley with the top of the head and the 0° on the flywheel, then your dizzy at no1. Fit your new belt. Tension it to be able to move 90° in both ways, not more not less, turn the engine anti clock wise till you allign the 6° btdc mark on the flywheel. Loosen the 13mm bolt holding the dizzy in place and turn the distributor body to allign the mark at the bottom wich indicates no1, tighten the bolt again, put the car in timing mode to referance with timing light and bobs your uncle, fanny's your aunt and fat larry your sister.


Ps: Provided that the first timing settings are done with the old belt still fitted and the timing was not out in any way.

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Re: Timing for dummies

Post by Funkymunkyman »

There anyone in cape town that can do this for my 99 polo playa 1.6i?
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