Starter Motors - Are they the same?

Post Reply
Dust

Post by Dust »

Hi All,

Is the starter motor off the Mk2 1.8 Carb CSX the same as the starter off the 2.0 16V?

Thanks in advance,
Dustin
Rabbit16v
VWCSA Member
Posts: 1664
Joined: 21 years 7 months
Membership No: 63
Location: Centurion (Gauteng)

Post by Rabbit16v »

No, the CSX uses a 020 gearbox and flywheel, and the 2l 16v uses a 02A gearbox and flywheel, so the starters is totally different.

P.S. I am looking for a 2l 16v/vr6 starter if anybody has one laying around I would be interested :;):
BOOST - The ONLY replacement for displacement.
User avatar
Awesum
Lieutenant
Posts: 1938
Joined: 21 years 7 months
Car Make: VW
Car Model: Tiguan
Membership No: 999
Location: Jhb

Post by Awesum »

When I replaced my starter in my 2.0 16V it cost about R2500 from the dealer. That was about 5 years ago. There is a big difference between the 1.8 and 2.0 starters. Luckily I had warranty on the car at that time and I didnt have to pay anything.
2019 Tiguan 2.0TDI, R-Line
2019 Polo GTI

Ex 2013 Tiguan 2.0TDI
Ex 2016 Golf VII R, DSG
Ex 2015 Polo 6C GTI, DSG, Pure White
Ex 2014 Golf VII GTI, DSG, Tornado red
Ex 2010 Scirocco 2.0TSi, DSG; Candy White; Revo, 20" RS6 wheels; Coiled looow.
Ex 2010 Golf VI GTI Dsg, Tornado Red, 19's, Revo 2
Ex 2008 Golf V GTI DSG, Riding on 19"s
Ex 2007 Golf V GTI DSG
Ex 2002 Golf IV GTI
Ex 1991 Golf II GTi 2.0 16V
Ex 1991 Jetta II CLi 1.8 8V Exec
Rabbit16v
VWCSA Member
Posts: 1664
Joined: 21 years 7 months
Membership No: 63
Location: Centurion (Gauteng)

Post by Rabbit16v »

Awesum wrote:my starter in my 2.0 16V it cost about R2500 from the dealer.
R625 from Golfwagen :p
BOOST - The ONLY replacement for displacement.
Dust

Post by Dust »

and that AVZ gearbox - any difference then?
Dust

Post by Dust »

my reason for asking is that my starter is completely F**ked now - will be replacing this weekend - next year i'm putting in the 2.0 16V motor...wanting to use the same new starter...but i suppose if the AVZ gearbox fits the 2.0 16V motor - then it shud be fine?
Rabbit16v
VWCSA Member
Posts: 1664
Joined: 21 years 7 months
Membership No: 63
Location: Centurion (Gauteng)

Post by Rabbit16v »

Dust wrote:and that AVZ gearbox - any difference then?
All the linkshift (020) gearboxes uses the same starter.

All the cableshift (02A 02J) gearboxes uses the same starter.

Dont know the AVZ code, but if it is a linkshift box, it will use the same starter you have now, and both the 02A and 020 boxes (except the VR6 ones), will bolt up to the 2l 16v motor.

The type of starter is determined by the type of flywheel/gearbox you use - 020 uses one kind, and the 02A/02J uses the other kind.
BOOST - The ONLY replacement for displacement.
LittleG
Captain
Posts: 2188
Joined: 21 years 5 months
Location: Randpark

Post by LittleG »

Nope AVZ is what I have in my MK2 and came out in the CSX Jetta and Golf (Linkshift O2O type) so it isnt gonna fit a O2A type starter\Flywheel.

I wouldnt suggest this box for a 16v either. It is long, At 3K odd I am at 120km\h and at 4K I am at an indicated 160km\h in fifth.
Dust

Post by Dust »

Shot for all the help guys - appreciate it - the AVZ is long as Little said - its quite sh*t really - which gearbox do u recommend for sprinting Rabbit?
Dust

Post by Dust »

little g - i also have the avz at the moment...
Rabbit16v
VWCSA Member
Posts: 1664
Joined: 21 years 7 months
Membership No: 63
Location: Centurion (Gauteng)

Post by Rabbit16v »

Dust wrote:Shot for all the help guys - appreciate it - the AVZ is long as Little said - its quite sh*t really - which gearbox do u recommend for sprinting Rabbit?

The 2Y is a great all rounder .....
or you can get Jaco to build you a special :;):

use 2Y ratio's all the way till 4th, with a 0.85 5th gear and then replace the 3.67 diff with a 3.94 diff

:cool:
BOOST - The ONLY replacement for displacement.
jsk
Cadet
Posts: 915
Joined: 21 years 7 months
Location: Ellisras

Post by jsk »

Dust there is even a better way without building a custom box!Get a FFZ box and only change the 5th gear from a 0.85 to 0.80. You could do the change with the box on the car!The diff is already 3.94. :cool:
Meet the Minogue sisters:{Kylie} Golf MK2 GTi 1.8 8v evo2 (103bhp on wheels @ Big Z)
{Danni} Golf MK2 GTi 2.0 16VT (future project)
Dust

Post by Dust »

Thanks very much for all the advice all - one last thing - will the avz fit onto the 2.0 16V - someone was saying something about only changing the flywheel or something to do it...

Thanks Again
LittleG
Captain
Posts: 2188
Joined: 21 years 5 months
Location: Randpark

Post by LittleG »

A AVZ will fit a 2lt16v if you put a 8v flywheel onto the motor and change the starter, I still recon you should get yourself another box or send the current AVZ to Jaco and get a special box. I see it like fitting a Turbo but not fitting an intercooler. If you gonna spend the money on a 16v change the box to something that will complement the motor.
Slowboat
Lieutenant
Posts: 1004
Joined: 21 years 7 months
Location: Gauteng

Post by Slowboat »

Dust wrote:Thanks very much for all the advice all - one last thing - will the avz fit onto the 2.0 16V - someone was saying something about only changing the flywheel or something to do it...

Thanks Again
Yep you can do it by changing the flywheel.

One question.
Is this the original MKII 2L 16V? If so then there is a bit of work invloved. I can tell you what's involved with some pictures.
If you're behind, you're slow. If you're in front, you're in my way.

Image
User avatar
Armand
Cadet
Posts: 403
Joined: 15 years 9 months
Car Make: VW
Car Model: Black Magic 6R Polo Gti
Membership No: 1828
Location: Kathu

Re: Starter Motors - Are they the same?

Post by Armand »

Hi, we have 2 caddy bakkie's, one with abf engine and one with ady motor and both with ffz gearboxes and both with the standard 8v starters and both has loud noise when we overturn them, the ady caddy's starter have broken last week and when we talked to the guy at goldwagen he told us that the noise is because there is a diffrence between 2.0 and 1.6, 1.4 and 1.3 starters, he said that it is the bendix drive that is different but I cant see how, I will be installing the starter he recommended so will gove feedback, and if it sound normal I will be buying one for the ABF aswell
Current:
2011 Black 6R Polo Gti (Forge intake, Viper dp, Stage 2 DNA sw)
Ex:
2007 Polo gti (Giac software, 76mm dp, ITG Induction, custom FMIC)
2009 Citi 1.4i sport
1997 Uno turbo ( w/m, Tdo4 turbo, intercooler,76mm exhaust
Bmw 540i e34 (Standard)
Nissan 3.0 v6 (Brospeed branches and exhaust)
2009 Polo gti (Giac software)
Suzuki gsxr1000 k5 (Everything)
Vw caddy club (Mp9 conver, Branches, exhaust, chip)
User avatar
PapaJo
Brigadier
Posts: 6984
Joined: 13 years 11 months
Car Make: VW's
Car Model: '16 7R, '86 Caddy AUM 20VT
Membership No: missing
Location: Meyerton or Offshore Guyana.

Re: Starter Motors - Are they the same?

Post by PapaJo »

Armand wrote: Sat May 12, 2018 9:58 pm Hi, we have 2 caddy bakkie's, one with abf engine and one with ady motor and both with ffz gearboxes and both with the standard 8v starters and both has loud noise when we overturn them, the ady caddy's starter have broken last week and when we talked to the guy at goldwagen he told us that the noise is because there is a diffrence between 2.0 and 1.6, 1.4 and 1.3 starters, he said that it is the bendix drive that is different but I cant see how, I will be installing the starter he recommended so will gove feedback, and if it sound normal I will be buying one for the ABF aswell
15 year thread revival.

The bendix drive on the 020 gearbox has 9 teeth. Check the brass bush inside the gearbox casing. If it is worn out the armature shaft will possibly touch on the magnet drum and cause the noise. This will cause that that the bendix teeth dies not mesh oroperly on flywheel teeth. End result is worn or broken flywheel teeth.

There is a torque difference between the starters.

What starter did he recommend?

Don’t use the Golf 4 starter on a 020 box. It fits an kicks in and turn the motor over sounding very rough and loud as the bendix pushes too far forward and hitting into the metal behind the flywheel teeth.
User avatar
Armand
Cadet
Posts: 403
Joined: 15 years 9 months
Car Make: VW
Car Model: Black Magic 6R Polo Gti
Membership No: 1828
Location: Kathu

Re: Starter Motors - Are they the same?

Post by Armand »

PapaJo wrote: Sun May 13, 2018 2:01 pm
Armand wrote: Sat May 12, 2018 9:58 pm Hi, we have 2 caddy bakkie's, one with abf engine and one with ady motor and both with ffz gearboxes and both with the standard 8v starters and both has loud noise when we overturn them, the ady caddy's starter have broken last week and when we talked to the guy at goldwagen he told us that the noise is because there is a diffrence between 2.0 and 1.6, 1.4 and 1.3 starters, he said that it is the bendix drive that is different but I cant see how, I will be installing the starter he recommended so will gove feedback, and if it sound normal I will be buying one for the ABF aswell
15 year thread revival.

The bendix drive on the 020 gearbox has 9 teeth. Check the brass bush inside the gearbox casing. If it is worn out the armature shaft will possibly touch on the magnet drum and cause the noise. This will cause that that the bendix teeth dies not mesh oroperly on flywheel teeth. End result is worn or broken flywheel teeth.

There is a torque difference between the starters.

What starter did he recommend?

Don’t use the Golf 4 starter on a 020 box. It fits an kicks in and turn the motor over sounding very rough and loud as the bendix pushes too far forward and hitting into the metal behind the flywheel teeth.
The one they gave us dont have that long point that fits into that brass bush but the rest look exactly the same, and it was about R600 more expensive
Current:
2011 Black 6R Polo Gti (Forge intake, Viper dp, Stage 2 DNA sw)
Ex:
2007 Polo gti (Giac software, 76mm dp, ITG Induction, custom FMIC)
2009 Citi 1.4i sport
1997 Uno turbo ( w/m, Tdo4 turbo, intercooler,76mm exhaust
Bmw 540i e34 (Standard)
Nissan 3.0 v6 (Brospeed branches and exhaust)
2009 Polo gti (Giac software)
Suzuki gsxr1000 k5 (Everything)
Vw caddy club (Mp9 conver, Branches, exhaust, chip)
User avatar
PapaJo
Brigadier
Posts: 6984
Joined: 13 years 11 months
Car Make: VW's
Car Model: '16 7R, '86 Caddy AUM 20VT
Membership No: missing
Location: Meyerton or Offshore Guyana.

Re: Starter Motors - Are they the same?

Post by PapaJo »

Armand wrote: Sun May 13, 2018 2:20 pm
PapaJo wrote: Sun May 13, 2018 2:01 pm
Armand wrote: Sat May 12, 2018 9:58 pm Hi, we have 2 caddy bakkie's, one with abf engine and one with ady motor and both with ffz gearboxes and both with the standard 8v starters and both has loud noise when we overturn them, the ady caddy's starter have broken last week and when we talked to the guy at goldwagen he told us that the noise is because there is a diffrence between 2.0 and 1.6, 1.4 and 1.3 starters, he said that it is the bendix drive that is different but I cant see how, I will be installing the starter he recommended so will gove feedback, and if it sound normal I will be buying one for the ABF aswell
15 year thread revival.

The bendix drive on the 020 gearbox has 9 teeth. Check the brass bush inside the gearbox casing. If it is worn out the armature shaft will possibly touch on the magnet drum and cause the noise. This will cause that that the bendix teeth dies not mesh oroperly on flywheel teeth. End result is worn or broken flywheel teeth.

There is a torque difference between the starters.

What starter did he recommend?

Don’t use the Golf 4 starter on a 020 box. It fits an kicks in and turn the motor over sounding very rough and loud as the bendix pushes too far forward and hitting into the metal behind the flywheel teeth.
The one they gave us dont have that long point that fits into that brass bush but the rest look exactly the same, and it was about R600 more expensive
That is then most likely the mk4 starter they gave you. I would not recommend tgat you use it as explained above earlier.

Post a picture of the one they have given you.
User avatar
Armand
Cadet
Posts: 403
Joined: 15 years 9 months
Car Make: VW
Car Model: Black Magic 6R Polo Gti
Membership No: 1828
Location: Kathu

Re: Starter Motors - Are they the same?

Post by Armand »

Image
Current:
2011 Black 6R Polo Gti (Forge intake, Viper dp, Stage 2 DNA sw)
Ex:
2007 Polo gti (Giac software, 76mm dp, ITG Induction, custom FMIC)
2009 Citi 1.4i sport
1997 Uno turbo ( w/m, Tdo4 turbo, intercooler,76mm exhaust
Bmw 540i e34 (Standard)
Nissan 3.0 v6 (Brospeed branches and exhaust)
2009 Polo gti (Giac software)
Suzuki gsxr1000 k5 (Everything)
Vw caddy club (Mp9 conver, Branches, exhaust, chip)
User avatar
PapaJo
Brigadier
Posts: 6984
Joined: 13 years 11 months
Car Make: VW's
Car Model: '16 7R, '86 Caddy AUM 20VT
Membership No: missing
Location: Meyerton or Offshore Guyana.

Re: Starter Motors - Are they the same?

Post by PapaJo »

Same one I have tried using and flywheel teeth didn’t last 400km.

Don’t use it.

AC DeanK can confirm this as he bought my 8V motor with damaged flywheel teeth.

Image
Image
Image
User avatar
Armand
Cadet
Posts: 403
Joined: 15 years 9 months
Car Make: VW
Car Model: Black Magic 6R Polo Gti
Membership No: 1828
Location: Kathu

Re: Starter Motors - Are they the same?

Post by Armand »

PapaJo wrote: Sun May 13, 2018 6:58 pm Same one I have tried using and flywheel teeth didn’t last 400km.

Don’t use it.

AC DeanK can confirm this as he bought my 8V motor with damaged flywheel teeth.

Image
Image
Image
Thanks allot, you just saved from not being able to return it for the correct one
Current:
2011 Black 6R Polo Gti (Forge intake, Viper dp, Stage 2 DNA sw)
Ex:
2007 Polo gti (Giac software, 76mm dp, ITG Induction, custom FMIC)
2009 Citi 1.4i sport
1997 Uno turbo ( w/m, Tdo4 turbo, intercooler,76mm exhaust
Bmw 540i e34 (Standard)
Nissan 3.0 v6 (Brospeed branches and exhaust)
2009 Polo gti (Giac software)
Suzuki gsxr1000 k5 (Everything)
Vw caddy club (Mp9 conver, Branches, exhaust, chip)
User avatar
PapaJo
Brigadier
Posts: 6984
Joined: 13 years 11 months
Car Make: VW's
Car Model: '16 7R, '86 Caddy AUM 20VT
Membership No: missing
Location: Meyerton or Offshore Guyana.

Re: Starter Motors - Are they the same?

Post by PapaJo »

You are welcome.
Post Reply