Can carb fuel tank cause high injector duty?

Zoltan2222 · Post by **Zoltan2222** » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:31 pm

Roughly filed down the injector instead of trying the lathe. Curious to see how it will fit.

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PapaJo · Post by **PapaJo** » Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:15 pm

You are a very brave man to modify injectors.

ICE King · Post by **ICE King** » Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:34 pm

Isn't the AGU injectors longer?

One would use a spacer when using the longer injectors but not sure how to do it the other around.
Bosch EV14 is the injector to use should this not work or keep the existing injectors and map will need to be adjusted to be milder.

The injector cups differ hence the problem.

Goodluck man

Zoltan2222 · Post by **Zoltan2222** » Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:42 pm

The shape of the injector indicated that the piece I filed was only plastic, the same portion of the injector was only 15mm on the other 2 sides. The AGU injectors are 16mm longer yes. For that I have asked a local engineering company to machine aluminum spacers for me, think I did upload the photos of that. So the spacer plus extra o-ring on the fuel rail, and then the filed injector should seat deeper into the cup and I hope that works, should be able to kinda confirm tonight. But the true test will only be once I get the spacers, and can actually do a remap.

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PapaJo · Post by **PapaJo** » Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:55 pm

Zoltan2222 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:42 pm The shape of the injector indicated that the piece I filed was only plastic, the same portion of the injector was only 15mm on the other 2 sides. The AGU injectors are 16mm longer yes. For that I have asked a local engineering company to machine aluminum spacers for me, think I did upload the photos of that. So the spacer plus extra o-ring on the fuel rail, and then the filed injector should seat deeper into the cup and I hope that works, should be able to kinda confirm tonight. But the true test will only be once I get the spacers, and can actually do a remap.

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Looking forward to see how this turns out.

PapaJo · Post by **PapaJo** » Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:00 pm

Zoltan2222 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:42 pm The shape of the injector indicated that the piece I filed was only plastic, the same portion of the injector was only 15mm on the other 2 sides. The AGU injectors are 16mm longer yes. For that I have asked a local engineering company to machine aluminum spacers for me, think I did upload the photos of that. So the spacer plus extra o-ring on the fuel rail, and then the filed injector should seat deeper into the cup and I hope that works, should be able to kinda confirm tonight. But the true test will only be once I get the spacers, and can actually do a remap.

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Looking forward to see how this turns out.

Zoltan2222 · Post by **Zoltan2222** » Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:15 pm

In afr we say: slim vang sy baas

So to sum that up, I should not have filed the injector all the way up to the other shoulder. Will take new measurements tomorrow as I dont have the vernier with me, but seems like the injector only needz to move in another 3mm or so.
What happened now is that the injector passed right through the cup, and as the cup is square at the bottom I could not pull it out again as the o-ring pinched. Luckily the seat was kinda loose and I could take it out to remove the o-ring and then the injector.
But I can now confirm that the 317cc injectors will seat well in the AGU cups with a small mod.

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PapaJo · Post by **PapaJo** » Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:48 am

Oh boy, it can fit in the cups, but don't trim too much on the injector to push through the cup. did you get the distance to trim wrong to have the o ring seated inside the cup or just trimmed too much down on the two stopper parts?

Post by **Killerwatt** » Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:24 am

Spacers will work. But i suspect it would be easier to mod the current fuel rail mounting points on the manifold or get a fuel rail from the newer 1.8t motors.

Zoltan2222 · Post by **Zoltan2222** » Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:09 am

Okay, never thought about that, will the never fuel rail be a direct fit? As I need to drive on my current map with current injectors to Panic, and then quickly and easily change to the new injectors before remap.

So some more photos, in the first foto you can see how the current injector sits in the cup, the tip passes through the cup a bit.
My plan "planned 1" was to fit the new injector flush at the the bottom and keep the o-ring in its original position as indicated by the pencil in "planned 1".
But after seeing how far the original injector passes, I now think about doing "planned 2", making the injectors stick out more into the mani. But if I do this, I need to move the o-ring backwards as indicated by the pencil in "planned 2". The o-ring size will also be adapted to fit over that part and fit inside the cup.

Between planned 1 and planned 2, which will be better?

Will add measurements later when I get a gap.

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Zoltan2222 · Post by **Zoltan2222** » Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:03 pm

Think if I do planned 2 which seems to be the better idea, I will need to extend the cup with 5mm as well, and then need a 13mm extender at the top. If the DBW fuel rail does not fit.

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PapaJo · Post by **PapaJo** » Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:07 pm

Planned 2 will get the injector tip to a similar position as the AGU injectors by the looks of it.

Look at getting K-jet injector o rings to fit in the top groove as shown by the pencil in planned2.

Another thing to check if you go for planned 2 is to check that you still have enough clearance on the injector plug and wire loom and that it does not catch on head or manifold.

PapaJo · Post by **PapaJo** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:35 am

Progress update??

Zoltan2222 · Post by **Zoltan2222** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:58 am

Sorry, no progress as yet. Had a conference/team building weekend.

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PapaJo · Post by **PapaJo** » Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:26 pm

Ok, weekend finished. Time for updates. Will check in on regular basis to look for updates.....lol.

Zoltan2222 · Post by **Zoltan2222** » Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:46 am

Sorry, this might go very slow for a while. As the team building weekend made a huge shift in our work load/performance.
Also the lack of information on this makes it a scary road, but the local engineer is also curious so as soon as I have a gap I will stop by him with the caddy and make a plan. At least I got a E90 320i injector rail for free, and the injector mount on it might be the correct lenght to use.

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Post by **Killerwatt** » Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:48 am

Are you ever planing to upgrade the turbo on the motor?
Reason being the 317s are near the limit on a k03s. So you might be better off grabing a bigger set of injectors of the correct length

Zoltan2222 · Post by **Zoltan2222** » Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:17 pm

Well, I am going to try and stay with the K03 I have, not planning to upgrade.
I would like a set of 440cc Bosch greens like Panic also advised, but I do not want to spend that much with the small k03 in mind, but I do have these 317cc injectors allready.
My goal is to get 200whp, hopefully with the engine and turbo I have now, and also within safe reasonable limts.

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PapaJo · Post by **PapaJo** » Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:04 pm

Modifications are an endless deep money pit. Once the bug bites, you keep spending money to feed the hunger power.

Post by **Killerwatt** » Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:39 pm

On aftermarket management and a k03 you would probably get to the 180whp mark.
Max with a k03s and oem ecu is around 210whp at altitude.

If you keeping the 317s then go with plan 1. No need to have the injectors protrude too much.

PapaJo · Post by **PapaJo** » Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:15 pm

Killerwatt wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:39 pm On aftermarket management and a k03 you would probably get to the 180whp mark.
Max with a k03s and oem ecu is around 210whp at altitude.

If you keeping the 317s then go with plan 1. No need to have the injectors protrude too much.

Altitude is robbing us.

Let’s see what I will get with ko3s and aftermarket ecu.

Zoltan2222 · Post by **Zoltan2222** » Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:36 am

If 180whp is all I will see I dont know if I want to go through all the mods, that only 19hp from where I am now.

If the injector is moved back too much will it not cause the fuel to hit the intake manifold and turn the vapour back into liquid?

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Post by **Killerwatt** » Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:35 am

Agree, if you are going throught the trouble of changing injectors for more power then rather look at bigger ones in conjunction with a larger turbo.

The 317 have an angled spray pattern so they should not hit he walls.

Dug up an old dyno for reference of a 1.8t k03s.

PapaJo · Post by **PapaJo** » Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:16 pm

Don’t think there is turning back to std injectors unless the injector cups are not modified yet.

Zoltan2222 · Post by **Zoltan2222** » Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:27 pm

Nope, I have not made any mods to the std stuff. Only filed that one 317cc injector.
My idea (if I continue with this) will be to make new cups and also additional fuel rail (or the extentions) so it will be possible to swop everything back if its shitty with the 317cc

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Can carb fuel tank cause high injector duty?

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Re: Can carb fuel tank cause high injector duty?

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Re: Can carb fuel tank cause high injector duty?

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