Driving a DSG

[sbu.mah]

This might sound like a noob question but have driven only manuals till now,

On a DSG when stopping the car be it in traffic or robots, does one have to shift to neutral or just leave it on D1. I have noticed that when on D1 the car makes a noise different to when it's on neutral. Also is the gear engaged even though the car is completely stopped but on D1, and will that not put the strain on the clutch



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[Belix]

I've noticed that the instantaneous fuel consumption reading is higher when leaving it in drive, which makes me think there is still some clutch contact. I usually shift to neutral if I'm going to be stopped for more than a few seconds.

Just be sure to change back to drive 2 seconds or so before you plan to pull off or you get a rather unpleasant pull off as the clutch engages with an engine already being accelerated.

Then remember you're not in drive. Gets a bit embarrassing when you rev the car at the green light and go nowhere...

Lastly, the car let's you shift from neutral to drive when the car is stopped or above a certain speed, but not in between, so if the car rolls forward, you sometimes need to brake to a stop again before you can engage drive, again potentially making you look like a tonsil in traffic...

[ICE King]

Alot make this mistake , but you only suppose to use drive when the car is moving,

Shouldn't use drive it to hold the car or while the car is at a complete standstill - especially with a dry clutch DSG

This does make the DSG the worst in stop and go traffic.

[Howie-WP]

I just leave it in Drive......

[Mass]

Alot make this mistake , but you only suppose to use drive when the car is moving,

Shouldn't use drive it to hold the car or while the car is at a complete standstill - especially with a dry clutch DSG

This does make the DSG the worst in stop and go traffic.

I have the dry clutch DSG and when I fully depress the break pedal at a standstill the revs drop, almost like the clutches have been disengaged. When releasing the break pedal it takes a moment to engage the clutches and pull away.

[G-spot]

Alot make this mistake , but you only suppose to use drive when the car is moving,

Shouldn't use drive it to hold the car or while the car is at a complete standstill - especially with a dry clutch DSG

This does make the DSG the worst in stop and go traffic.

I call BS

[ICE King]

Alot make this mistake , but you only suppose to use drive when the car is moving,

Shouldn't use drive it to hold the car or while the car is at a complete standstill - especially with a dry clutch DSG

This does make the DSG the worst in stop and go traffic.

I call BS

Elaborate?

My explanation was for longer rather than quick stopping periods.

[panic-mechanic]

Drive it like an auto but avoid brake creeping.

[Mass]

Alot make this mistake , but you only suppose to use drive when the car is moving,

Shouldn't use drive it to hold the car or while the car is at a complete standstill - especially with a dry clutch DSG

This does make the DSG the worst in stop and go traffic.

I call BS

Elaborate?

My explanation was for longer rather than quick stopping periods.

I don't think any manufacturer can reasonably expect a driver to constantly move their auto transmission (whether DSG or otherwise) to neutral during each stop, hence the clutch disengaging when fully depressing the brake while in drive.

[Belix]

But not when stopped with handbrake on, and foot off the brake?

[8VALVE-zn]

So when you slowing down to a robot until you reach a complete stop, the clutches will be active for a short period (2-3 sec). By staying on the brake the box goes into neutral on its own (will idle under 1000rpm). When of the brake the clutches engage within milli-seconds and the revv gauge will move to around 1000 rpm.

There was once a guy that ran a scan on the DQ200 DSG box, even by depressing the brake pedal one of the clutches still remained active (biting). So yes the manufacturer has accounted for the disengaging clutch at a stop but its not a 100% disengaged. I personally prefer putting my car into N (night mode) while at a robot. But during traffic driving I keep it in D (Day mode) as I'm forgetful & don't want to roll into the back of someone when trying to pull off in N.

Further, as Panic said don't creep forward at all and keep yourself disciplined with this- It will ensure the cutch lasts as long as its suppose to and you will have a nice smooth changing box. Also, in traffic try your best to pull off in 1st gear- for those that don't know, the DQ200 loves being in 2nd gear. You could literally just hit the gas pedal and next thing bang you in the 2nd gear with almost no speed- so try and use the paddle on the left to force the car into 1st gear (don't be stupid with this- if you under 15-20km/h, I'm under the assumption that you have good judgement) and then pull off again at low speeds or slight incline

[ICE King]

Alot make this mistake , but you only suppose to use drive when the car is moving,

Shouldn't use drive it to hold the car or while the car is at a complete standstill - especially with a dry clutch DSG

This does make the DSG the worst in stop and go traffic.

I call BS

Elaborate?

My explanation was for longer rather than quick stopping periods.

I don't think any manufacturer can reasonably expect a driver to constantly move their auto transmission (whether DSG or otherwise) to neutral during each stop, hence the clutch disengaging when fully depressing the brake while in drive.

Correct they dont, what I was trying to get across is to avoid partial clutch engagement which is a result of brake creeping as panic mentioned.

[ICE King]

But not when stopped with handbrake on, and foot off the brake?

Good question, but I think only the foot brake disengages the clutch and not the hand brake , but this behavior can differ car models with DSG and also can be manipulated by doing a DSG flash.

My replies was based on the behaviour of a Golf 6 GTI but can be different from say ,a Golf 7 GTI

Some can be faulty and not disengage.

[Mass]

But not when stopped with handbrake on, and foot off the brake?

Why would you drive like this if you have an automatic ...

[Belix]

Because I don't want to sneeze and rear end someone else when stopped?

[jaunrothner]

I call BS

Elaborate?

My explanation was for longer rather than quick stopping periods.

I don't think any manufacturer can reasonably expect a driver to constantly move their auto transmission (whether DSG or otherwise) to neutral during each stop, hence the clutch disengaging when fully depressing the brake while in drive.

Correct they dont, what I was trying to get across is to avoid partial clutch engagement which is a result of brake creeping as panic mentioned.

Hi,

What is "brake creeping" ?

[Neuk]

Leave it in D unless you know you are going to be stopped for a while and never brake creep.

[dazza]

Here I thought driving an auto car should need no special instructions. 2 pedals over 3 still confusing

[Neuk]

Here I thought driving an auto car should need no special instructions. 2 medals over 3 still confusing

It shouldn't but you can't treat a dual clutch automatic gearbox like a torque converter automatic gearbox.

[dazza]

Here I thought driving an auto car should need no special instructions. 2 medals over 3 still confusing

It shouldn't but you can't treat a dual clutch automatic gearbox like a torque converter automatic gearbox.

Cant say my driving or treating of my Dsg cars vs Torque converter gearbox cars has been any different. I am just trolling but maybe I did not understand the question/concern properly

#savethemanuals

[VGTI]

Here I thought driving an auto car should need no special instructions. 2 medals over 3 still confusing

It shouldn't but you can't treat a dual clutch automatic gearbox like a torque converter automatic gearbox.

The DSG we had in the Altea was pretty much get in and go... make sure it gets its oil changes and aim with your right foot!

None of this nuwerwedse kak, baby this baby that! Sure it had the oil cooled clutches.

When you get an auto for the wife you don't want to worry about crap like this... so I'll just skip the smaller DSGs then.

[panic-mechanic]

The thing is though - it isn't an auto. It's a manual gearbox (with two clutches) that is operated and shifted by electro hydraulic means.
So you need to treat it a bit like a manual to make it last.
One of the first things maybe somebody taught you when driving a manual is not to ride the clutch. So if you stand at a robot - keep the clutch depressed(this has a secondary long term effect of wearing thrust bearings in the engine but let's not go there) and engage the brakes or handbrake or stick it in neutral with the brakes on. Don't 'ride' the clutch to keep the car stationary.

Well now this is the same thing for DSG. When you stand still with your foot on the brake it will disengage the clutch and basically do the equivalent of sitting in gear with you foot fully on the clutch. As soon as you release the brake the electronics will try to apply the clutch and let the car move forward. IE the equivalent of you riding the clutch. Thus at that point you are incurring clutch plate wear. Once you at the speed where the need is not there to slip the clutch it is fully engaged like a manual with your foot off the clutch. When you slow down and it has geared down to second or first and if you keep slowing it down to the point where the engine would stall it will now start slipping the clutch again to accomodate your speed and if you have come to a standstill it will disengage.

Now a genuine auto box has for the connection between the engine and the gearbox a thing called a torque converter. There is no clutches in a torque converter to make it start or stop - the clutches in there is to do lockup which only occurs in gears like 4-th onward in audi and VW products mostly.
A torque converter has two sets of 'vanes' set in very close proximity and the area around them is filled with oil. When the driven vanes(attached to the engine side) speeds up the friction effect of the oil causes the vanes on the other side to be dragged along and thus drive is created in the gearbox. There is no actual components touching and thus no wear other than some heating of the oil and with age - breakdown of the fluid itself. So allowing the vehicle to slowly creep forward with you foot lightly on the brake has no wear effect on the torque converter and you can do it all the time for no penalty. IE brake creeping is what makes auto boxes great in traffic.

Once the vehicle is moving these days the torque converter will be locked up by a set of physical clutches and will then react like a clutch car - ie power transfer is direct with no slip from the vanes.

These are the Main differences in what distinguises the 'workings' of a dsg to an auto for what we care for in terms of longevity. If you allow a dsg car to creep slowly forward with your foot partially on the brake it is wearing the clutch set for gears 1,3,5,7 and with time they will be too thin for the system to get drive and then you get all kinds of issues or get locked into 2,4,6 gears only.
So it's really at slowing down and driving in traffic that you need to consider the workings of DSG. For any other times - yes sure it's an auto for all intents and purposes. If you drive it like an auto in traffic - expect to replace a set of clutches sooner than one that doesn't or that runs long distance.

[Neuk]

Here I thought driving an auto car should need no special instructions. 2 medals over 3 still confusing

It shouldn't but you can't treat a dual clutch automatic gearbox like a torque converter automatic gearbox.

Cant say my driving or treating of my Dsg cars vs Torque converter gearbox cars has been any different. I am just trolling but maybe I did not understand the question/concern properly

#savethemanuals

panic describes it far better than I ever could, more care and thought needs to be taken when driving dual clutch automatic gear boxes as they are essentially automated manual gearboxes, where torque convert based gear boxes are a lot more forgiving of driving style or lack thereof.

Thanks for admitting you are a troll, many of us have always been suspicious based on your vertical challenged status

[Neuk]

Here I thought driving an auto car should need no special instructions. 2 medals over 3 still confusing

It shouldn't but you can't treat a dual clutch automatic gearbox like a torque converter automatic gearbox.

The DSG we had in the Altea was pretty much get in and go... make sure it gets its oil changes and aim with your right foot!

None of this nuwerwedse kak, baby this baby that! Sure it had the oil cooled clutches.

When you get an auto for the wife you don't want to worry about crap like this... so I'll just skip the smaller DSGs then.

This, always and forever.

[ICE King]

Elaborate?

My explanation was for longer rather than quick stopping periods.

I don't think any manufacturer can reasonably expect a driver to constantly move their auto transmission (whether DSG or otherwise) to neutral during each stop, hence the clutch disengaging when fully depressing the brake while in drive.

Correct they dont, what I was trying to get across is to avoid partial clutch engagement which is a result of brake creeping as panic mentioned.

Hi,

What is "brake creeping" ?

See panic's reply, it's spot on.

Here's a quick real life example:

Bumper to bumper traffic while rolling:

In a manual , you accelerate , take foot off accelerating pedal, put the car in Neutral and use the brake to slow down the vehicle .

In a DSG , in drive mode and you partially braking to slow the car down but in essence means partial clutch engagement = equivalent of accelerating and braking at the same time in a manual which is not good long term.