Pops and bang mods

sbu.mah
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Pops and bang mods

Post by sbu.mah »

I see most folks are now tuning their cars to have this 'pops and bangs' sound - which for some unknown reason I find the sound very irritating and an annoyance. Will go crazy having that on my car especially a daily drive. But do understand we all have different tastes

As I understand this is an ecu tune, if so will this not negatively affect the car in a long run - be it engine or other internals.

And what is tempered with to get that sound?

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Re: Pops and bang mods

Post by Jetta2 »

One of THE stupidest and irritating mods that is the "in thing" with twats who think it sounds cool.
I refused a drive in a clients car (Mk7 GTI) purely because of this crap.

It is an ECU "tune" or map, and whoever spent money on doing it to their car needs psychological help. With a hammer. On the forehead. Repeatedly.
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Re: Pops and bang mods

Post by gPhilipC »

The pops and bangs are foun on rally cars. The ecu changes the timing of the engin when you come of the throttle so that Its to keep the tubo spooled up in order to eliminate turbo lag. But some one with a psych issue decided its cool. Well i agree it wholly irritating...
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Re: Pops and bang mods

Post by Rascal69 »

I'm led to believe that the fueling/timing is adjusted to create the pops and bangs within a map... I personally cannot stand it and find it very stupid to make such a racket..

Launch control on the other hand, i have absolutely no issues with :D
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Re: Pops and bang mods

Post by DJ7 »

gPhilipC wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 9:55 pm The pops and bangs are foun on rally cars. The ecu changes the timing of the engin when you come of the throttle so that Its to keep the tubo spooled up in order to eliminate turbo lag. But some one with a psych issue decided its cool. Well i agree it wholly irritating...
ha is anti-lag, this pops and bangs I think is purely for the sound and not serving a purpose. Could be wrong.
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Re: Pops and bang mods

Post by DJ7 »

I am ok with it on certain car's that sort of come out standard with it. But not on every other car.
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Re: Pops and bang mods

Post by Sebz »

gPhilipC wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 9:55 pm The pops and bangs are foun on rally cars. The ecu changes the timing of the engin when you come of the throttle so that Its to keep the tubo spooled up in order to eliminate turbo lag. But some one with a psych issue decided its cool. Well i agree it wholly irritating...
Slightly different kind of pops and bangs that... Rally cars have anti-lag which, yes, keeps the turbo spooled up in order to (as the name suggests) eliminate lag when off the throttle. Although the principle is similar to what I'm going to explain below, rally cars have the effect "on" all the time, continually dumping as much fuel as possible so that the turbo doesn't slow down too much. The common effect we hear on most cars these days is a lot less aggressive and is generally regarded as "safe" but has absolutely no performance benefit.

The pops and bangs that have become popular with almost everyone - from Lamborghini designers to schoolboys driving their JHB's Financed GTI's - is normally achieved by retarding the ignition timing so that the fuel / air mix ignites later in the combustion cycle. With the right timing, this will happen as the exhaust valve is opening to allow the burnt gas to escape - creating the coveted / headache-inducing sounds that have become so common. It can be done on just about any petrol-powered vehicle, regardless of whether induction is forced or not. It's so common that I know of a Kia Picanto that makes this racket.

As mentioned above, most people have been told that this is safe as the retarded ignition timing helps the pistons slow down naturally and "saves" the motor. However, no performance gain comes from this "mod", as the amount of air in the system is not increased and the ignition timing is retarded, so there is only so much fuel that can be burnt while the rest is wasted in the name of waking everyone up at 2AM.

As I understand it from my extensive internet research, valves are surely under more strain and if you still have a cat in your exhaust, that won't last long and neither would the baffles in any boxes in the system.

Now before you judge me for reading up on this a lot more than I should, I absolutely detest this mod. The reason for my research was so that I could explain to people who don't know better how badly informed they are and what damage they could be putting their valve-train and exhaust system through. If your car overfuels and BURBLES with the occasional pop or bang because it's a badass racecar, that's cool AF! If your car sounds like fireworks going off on a tin roof because you wanted attention as you pull in to Nicci Beach, boet, I think you need help. I also think that if you worked on your car yourself and paid for your own maintenance, this kind of crackle map wouldn't even be an option. Since when is extra heat and wasting fuel gonna be a good thing? Why not spend the extra money on a mod that'll make your car faster? I seem to remember that the same people who have these maps would be part of the group laughing at 2.5 ST drivers playing with their throttles to create pops through creative revving - what changed?

I guess there are no proper answers to these questions - people just want the mod and aren't likely to stop anytime soon. I guess it comes down to preference and most people prefer attention over longevity of their mechanical parts.
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Re: Pops and bang mods

Post by gPhilipC »

i agree with you
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Re: Pops and bang mods

Post by Rascal69 »

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Re: Pops and bang mods

Post by sbu.mah »

Thanks Sebz, you have fully given me a context and understanding on how this annoyance works

Wish folks with this mods can read this

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Re: Pops and bang mods

Post by panic-mechanic »

I though it was just me because I'm too old. It's idiotic to say the least. Also not Great for turbo life.
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Re: Pops and bang mods

Post by Neuk »

panic-mechanic wrote: Fri May 10, 2019 10:23 am I though it was just me because I'm too old. It's idiotic to say the least. Also not Great for turbo life.
It should be called 'The Bogan Mod', in the same category as rev'ing the **** out of a stationary car and spinning.
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Re: Pops and bang mods

Post by Sebz »

panic-mechanic wrote:I though it was just me because I'm too old. It's idiotic to say the least. Also not Great for turbo life.
Succinctly put - idiotic and really unnecessary. What makes me laugh is that all these cars now sound fast, but very few can actually back it up.

Everyone claims that the turbo doesn’t suffer but in reality, which tuner is going to be honest about that? They just want to sell you a crackle map and don’t care about the longevity of your parts...

The worst part is that the secondhand performance car market is now even more of a minefield
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Re: Pops and bang mods

Post by JonathanT4 »

Sebz wrote: Fri May 10, 2019 12:11 pm
panic-mechanic wrote:I though it was just me because I'm too old. It's idiotic to say the least. Also not Great for turbo life.
Succinctly put - idiotic and really unnecessary. What makes me laugh is that all these cars now sound fast, but very few can actually back it up.

Everyone claims that the turbo doesn’t suffer but in reality, which tuner is going to be honest about that? They just want to sell you a crackle map and don’t care about the longevity of your parts...

The worst part is that the secondhand performance car market is now even more of a minefield
Im very open and honest about this, i often advise against it..
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Re: Pops and bang mods

Post by Saiendra »

Sebz wrote: Fri May 10, 2019 8:36 am
gPhilipC wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 9:55 pm The pops and bangs are foun on rally cars. The ecu changes the timing of the engin when you come of the throttle so that Its to keep the tubo spooled up in order to eliminate turbo lag. But some one with a psych issue decided its cool. Well i agree it wholly irritating...
Slightly different kind of pops and bangs that... Rally cars have anti-lag which, yes, keeps the turbo spooled up in order to (as the name suggests) eliminate lag when off the throttle. Although the principle is similar to what I'm going to explain below, rally cars have the effect "on" all the time, continually dumping as much fuel as possible so that the turbo doesn't slow down too much. The common effect we hear on most cars these days is a lot less aggressive and is generally regarded as "safe" but has absolutely no performance benefit.

The pops and bangs that have become popular with almost everyone - from Lamborghini designers to schoolboys driving their JHB's Financed GTI's - is normally achieved by retarding the ignition timing so that the fuel / air mix ignites later in the combustion cycle. With the right timing, this will happen as the exhaust valve is opening to allow the burnt gas to escape - creating the coveted / headache-inducing sounds that have become so common. It can be done on just about any petrol-powered vehicle, regardless of whether induction is forced or not. It's so common that I know of a Kia Picanto that makes this racket.

As mentioned above, most people have been told that this is safe as the retarded ignition timing helps the pistons slow down naturally and "saves" the motor. However, no performance gain comes from this "mod", as the amount of air in the system is not increased and the ignition timing is retarded, so there is only so much fuel that can be burnt while the rest is wasted in the name of waking everyone up at 2AM.

As I understand it from my extensive internet research, valves are surely under more strain and if you still have a cat in your exhaust, that won't last long and neither would the baffles in any boxes in the system.

Now before you judge me for reading up on this a lot more than I should, I absolutely detest this mod. The reason for my research was so that I could explain to people who don't know better how badly informed they are and what damage they could be putting their valve-train and exhaust system through. If your car overfuels and BURBLES with the occasional pop or bang because it's a badass racecar, that's cool AF! If your car sounds like fireworks going off on a tin roof because you wanted attention as you pull in to Nicci Beach, boet, I think you need help. I also think that if you worked on your car yourself and paid for your own maintenance, this kind of crackle map wouldn't even be an option. Since when is extra heat and wasting fuel gonna be a good thing? Why not spend the extra money on a mod that'll make your car faster? I seem to remember that the same people who have these maps would be part of the group laughing at 2.5 ST drivers playing with their throttles to create pops through creative revving - what changed?

I guess there are no proper answers to these questions - people just want the mod and aren't likely to stop anytime soon. I guess it comes down to preference and most people prefer attention over longevity of their mechanical parts.
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Re: Pops and bang mods

Post by V6 Capri »

Since the Focus ST 2.5's could do it, everybody wanted to do the exhaust pops....
Now that there is a standard RS that can do it as part of the factory tune in race mode, everybody has to have something like that...
It's a phase, and hopefully it will pass too... hopefully :crazy:
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Re: Pops and bang mods

Post by THANAS »

This seems to be quite the dramatic topic.

Having personally tuned overrun burbles/pops and bangs/exhaust crackles into pretty much most of the VAG platforms that can support them, I have experienced every part of the 'pops and bangs' spectrum. I think people have the idea that it's an on-off switch, either you have it set at an incredibly annoying level or not at all. Which is not true, adjusting the level to which the timing goes ATDC on overrun as well whether you choose to disable fuel cut entirely (which I don't) or momentarily, determines the intensity of it. I, as well as many OEMs, have found there to be appeal in the sound of some crackles and burbles on lift off or downshift. JCW Mini / Hyundai i30 N / RS7 etc. In many modern 'performance' ECUs, like the SIMOS18 for example, there is a specific ignition mapping component that is aimed at exactly that.

It is labelled as 'impulse combustion', and fade-in and fade-out times, as well the degree of atdc timing can all be set without imposing those values on the generally used timing tables. It can be set according to the driving mode as well, and whether exhaust flaps are open or closed.

Does it damage the turbo? Well you have to consider the mechanism by which impulse combustion (pops and bangs) occurs. Does it raise the EGTs? yes it does, as it allows for late combustion, which means more heat and kinetic energy is inside the cylinders when the exhaust valves open. However the amount by which it raises EGTs on any normal application is not anywhere near the level at which exhaust valves or turbine wheels are damaged (yes, I've logged EGT values during overrun). The actual kinetic energy released is also marginal and the impact of the impulses is, again, not at a level that would cause damage. As mentioned by others before, it is not to be confused with Antilag/Ignition Cut Limiter/Ignition Cut launch control, which are violent and definitely cause damage to systems not designed for it. Around 3 years on from one of the most extreme examples of Pops and Bangs that I've personally tuned, the exhaust valves and turbine wheel are still very much in the same condition. In fact, poor tuning in general, i.t.o EGT management under boost/Surge/Overspeeding of the turbo is far, far more likely to cause damage than impulse combustion. So to say "It damages the turbo" as a blanket statement, when the turbo is subjected to far more punishing conditions under normal operation, is just silly.

With regards to the comment about tuners not caring and just wanting to sell maps. I can't speak for every tuner, but I add it to my own vehicles, at an intensity level of my liking. If I thought it would cause damage, or any of the tests i've done or my experience with it, showed that it caused specific damage under 'normal' use, I wouldn't add it to my own car or to anyone elses.

If you go somewhere that has no sense of mechanical sympathy and completely overdoes it and then you sit revving your car for 30 minutes to hear the pops and bangs, or cruise down the high way in constant over-run shooting flames out of the exhaust, with no fuel cut and 50 degree ATDC timing, that is an abuse of the application, not the norm.
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Re: Pops and bang mods

Post by ICE King »

Regarding reliability, I've been running a Thanas "Pops & bangs" map for just over 3 years & 40k+ Kms later........Not a single breakage , Still factory turbo currently on 140+ kms , no smoke , no breaking noises , NOTHING ,

I apply the normal do's and don't with driving a car with a turbo ,

I hope this will be enough to convince those with biased opinions that "pop's & bangs" maps are perfectly safe if done correctly as Thanas explained ,Yes the noise might irritate some but that's understandable.

I even had the choice of choosing when to Pop , so currently only have it popping in the lower gears.
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Re: Pops and bang mods

Post by DJ7 »

This topic is sure getting interesting now.
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Re: Pops and bang mods

Post by chucker02 »

Thanas added pops and bangs to my car aswell when it was tuned and I love it. Not over done in any way and when driving normally you just get that burble from the exhaust, however if you drive hard you can get it to shoot a flame if you really wanted to.
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Re: Pops and bang mods

Post by Riyaadhsaley »

sbu.mah wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 8:48 pm I see most folks are now tuning their cars to have this 'pops and bangs' sound - which for some unknown reason I find the sound very irritating and an annoyance. Will go crazy having that on my car especially a daily drive. But do understand we all have different tastes

As I understand this is an ecu tune, if so will this not negatively affect the car in a long run - be it engine or other internals.

And what is tempered with to get that sound?

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Apparently the ecu is programmed in a manner which results in excess fuel flowing into the exhaust valve upon deceleration. In order to achieve this, the ignition timing is altered so the fuel/air mix ignites later in the engine's cycle. I've personally seen friends' turbos blow from the back pressure caused by it (imo, since it happened soon after the software was loaded). Some claim that it was the tuners fault, others claim that it was simply coincidental. I don't know. :bang:
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Re: Pops and bang mods

Post by Lodewyk »

I have Thanas pops and bangs for years with no issues arising from it. Perhaps all the internet heros, with all their knowledge, should email the engineers that build cars that do this in stock form and inform them that they are idiots and harming the cars. In fact why not suggest a recall to have all the stock cars doing this be flashed to boring mode.
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Re: Pops and bang mods

Post by Jetta2 »

I have no issue with cars that came with factory mapping that does that to a ceetain degree (some AMG Mercs, Lambos, Ferraris, even my own bike has it....), but to put one of those maps on a normal car that did not come with it from the factory is irritating.

Somethimes I wish someone would haul out a big firearm and shoot back when one of these twats does their pop and bang **** in a parking lot or late at night when the dop has flowed......
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Re: Pops and bang mods

Post by DocJ021 »

There is nothing as awesome, to me, as a rally car holding a shift in anticipation of a corner and hearing that overfuelling and burble. However in my complex at 9pm when my daughter is sleeping feels abit excessive. Especially when the guys do it on purpose so everyone in the complex knows they have arrived home. So i would so my problem is not with the mod itself, but the way guys abuse it under unnecessary circumstances. Around the roads and on the highway I have no problem, in our residential area, revving and holding off a shift to make sure everyone knows "the manne" have arrived is the wrong way to go about it, and give the modding/enthusiast community a shitty rep.
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Re: Pops and bang mods

Post by Yakuza Racer »

Jetta2 wrote: Thu May 09, 2019 9:08 pm One of THE stupidest and irritating mods that is the "in thing" with twats who think it sounds cool.
I refused a drive in a clients car (Mk7 GTI) purely because of this crap.

It is an ECU "tune" or map, and whoever spent money on doing it to their car needs psychological help. With a hammer. On the forehead. Repeatedly.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Thupercharged S4
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