Fitting a 2l oil pump in 1.6

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Kyle28rsa
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Fitting a 2l oil pump in 1.6

Post by Kyle28rsa »

Hi guys just want to know if a 2l oil pump can be fitted in a 1.6 single oil port carb motor. Its a direct fit but want to know if it wont over pressurize the system

Read a 2013 post that said the 2l pump delivers higher volume of oil at the same pressure and that they usually change to 2l pumps in stock car racing. Though im sure its not the old 1.6 carb motors that they use

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Re: Fitting a 2l oil pump in 1.6

Post by Dayknight-VW »

Your oil pressure relief valve should compensate if there is an increase in pressure, I stand to be correctly but that’s the purpose of the valve
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Re: Fitting a 2l oil pump in 1.6

Post by missioner »

Kyle28rsa wrote:Hi guys just want to know if a 2l oil pump can be fitted in a 1.6 single oil port carb motor. Its a direct fit but want to know if it wont over pressurize the system

Read a 2013 post that said the 2l pump delivers higher volume of oil at the same pressure and that they usually change to 2l pumps in stock car racing. Though im sure its not the old 1.6 carb motors that they use

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Do it.

Make sure it's a long block pump and install the larger oil pan to go with it. The flat bottom one.

Don't buy the aftermarket pan, it's made of paper, go hunt at a used parts an get the OEM one.

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Re: Fitting a 2l oil pump in 1.6

Post by Kyle28rsa »

missioner wrote:
Kyle28rsa wrote:Hi guys just want to know if a 2l oil pump can be fitted in a 1.6 single oil port carb motor. Its a direct fit but want to know if it wont over pressurize the system

Read a 2013 post that said the 2l pump delivers higher volume of oil at the same pressure and that they usually change to 2l pumps in stock car racing. Though im sure its not the old 1.6 carb motors that they use

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Do it.

Make sure it's a long block pump and install the larger oil pan to go with it. The flat bottom one.

Don't buy the aftermarket pan, it's made of paper, go hunt at a used parts an get the OEM one.

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Hi missioner. As always thanks for your answer as you always give more info than needed.

The pump came from an ADY which i think is the long block version compared to the 2E. Is there a way to check if it is a long block pump.

Also i have the plastic baffle as well, should i use that instead of the one i currently have on?

I have a 2l oil pan as well (the flat one) which is perfect.

Reason i want to change to the 2l pump is becuase i took your advice and connected a mechanical pressure gauge to determine my oil pressure and well the readings where shocking. When the motor is at operating temp, it idles at 0.1 bar and at 100khm in 5th gear it reads at 1.5 bar which im sure these numbers are way to low.

So instead of buying a new oil pump i want to test the 2l pump first and see if that would solve the issue before i have to check if my bearing clearence is correct

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Re: Fitting a 2l oil pump in 1.6

Post by Kyle28rsa »

Dayknight-VW wrote:Your oil pressure relief valve should compensate if there is an increase in pressure, I stand to be correctly but that’s the purpose of the valve
Thats correct. The thing is im not sure on how to test if the valve is working correctly. Hopefully the 2l pump will operate properly and the valve wont be stuck

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Re: Fitting a 2l oil pump in 1.6

Post by missioner »

ADY and 2E are both long block. So either would be fine.

The plastic baffle that's on the pump is fine.

Next question, where are you getting your oil pressure readings from? ie where is the sensor or the pipe connected to?

Post pictures.

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Re: Fitting a 2l oil pump in 1.6

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missioner wrote:ADY and 2E are both long block. So either would be fine.

The plastic baffle that's on the pump is fine.

Next question, where are you getting your oil pressure readings from? ie where is the sensor or the pipe connected to?

Post pictures.

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Pipe is connected onto the filter housing. Installed the oil pump started it up just to check for leaks and if its not popping any seals. Readings were at 3bar on idle. Didn drive it yet to temp. Will update once i driveImageImage

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Re: Fitting a 2l oil pump in 1.6

Post by Kyle28rsa »

So i just started up the car to warm it up. Then i heard a poof sound. Looked in the engine bay and the filter housing gasket popped

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Re: Fitting a 2l oil pump in 1.6

Post by Kyle28rsa »

So did another start up after replacing the gasket and saw that oil pressure kicked the oil gauge into overdrive spinning it right around (probably coz of the high oil pressure when cold) now the calibration is off and the needle stuck on 3bar. Mus still drive it up to temp to see what reading i get (using 3 bar as 0)Image

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Re: Fitting a 2l oil pump in 1.6

Post by missioner »

It seems that this car of yours is determined to hang itself.

The oil pressure seems excessive it goes past 8 bar on start up.

What oil are you using?

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Re: Fitting a 2l oil pump in 1.6

Post by Kyle28rsa »

Using 15w40. Is goes pass 8 bar on start up but once its at op temp it idles at one bar. Oil buzzer comes on when driving between 80 and 90 in fifth gear. Pass 9 then the oil buzzer shuts off.

I just make sure on start up i dont touch the accelerator at all until it drops down abit. Just incase oil starts sky rocketing out the motor

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Re: Fitting a 2l oil pump in 1.6

Post by missioner »

Warm the pressure should be about 1.5bar at idle.

The recommended oil for the EA827 engines is 20W-50 API-SL so nothing special really.

I have used 15W-40 and it does work, but the oil pressure can be a little low on very warm days.

I am concerned as the variation in the pressure seems excessive, to start so high and then to be borderline as the engine warms up. The most concerning part is that the buzzer comes on while you are driving. This isn't good and is meant to indicate a problem.

Before we go to extreme lengths and pull the motor make sure the white pressure switch is ok and not leaking. It's a cheap thing to replace so if it's suspect in any way, just change it. If the buzzer no longer comes on then it's simply a matter of watching the situation and not getting too paranoid.

Just for interest are both switches still installed. I can't remember seeing the white one in the previously posted picture of the oil filter housing.

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Re: Fitting a 2l oil pump in 1.6

Post by missioner »

missioner wrote:ADY and 2E are both long block. So either would be fine.

The plastic baffle that's on the pump is fine.

Next question, where are you getting your oil pressure readings from? ie where is the sensor or the pipe connected to?

Post pictures.

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The reason I asked this was because it's best to take pressure readings from the head and not from the oil filter housing.

I think this is why you are getting so much variation.

Perhaps get a new gauge that shows the right readings and connect it where the blue oil pressure switch is installed. Move the blue switch to next to the white one and extend the wire for the switch. For this I made a plug in one with a male and female lug on each end and simply taped the connection.

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Re: Fitting a 2l oil pump in 1.6

Post by Kyle28rsa »

missioner wrote:Warm the pressure should be about 1.5bar at idle.

The recommended oil for the EA827 engines is 20W-50 API-SL so nothing special really.

I have used 15W-40 and it does work, but the oil pressure can be a little low on very warm days.

I am concerned as the variation in the pressure seems excessive, to start so high and then to be borderline as the engine warms up. The most concerning part is that the buzzer comes on while you are driving. This isn't good and is meant to indicate a problem.

Before we go to extreme lengths and pull the motor make sure the white pressure switch is ok and not leaking. It's a cheap thing to replace so if it's suspect in any way, just change it. If the buzzer no longer comes on then it's simply a matter of watching the situation and not getting too paranoid.

Just for interest are both switches still installed. I can't remember seeing the white one in the previously posted picture of the oil filter housing.

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Ill go ahead and replace both the head and filter switch just so i can rule that issue out.

In the pic the white filter switch is there. Its just covered by the black rubber cover. I also have the brown switch on the head.

Im also confused as to why there is so high pressure on cold start but low on op temp.

Will it make a difference if i just switch the oil out to 20w50

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Re: Fitting a 2l oil pump in 1.6

Post by Kyle28rsa »

missioner wrote:
missioner wrote:ADY and 2E are both long block. So either would be fine.

The plastic baffle that's on the pump is fine.

Next question, where are you getting your oil pressure readings from? ie where is the sensor or the pipe connected to?

Post pictures.

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The reason I asked this was because it's best to take pressure readings from the head and not from the oil filter housing.

I think this is why you are getting so much variation.

Perhaps get a new gauge that shows the right readings and connect it where the blue oil pressure switch is installed. Move the blue switch to next to the white one and extend the wire for the switch. For this I made a plug in one with a male and female lug on each end and simply taped the connection.

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When you say blue switch, are you talking about the one on the head? I have a brown one over there.

But ill switch the line over to the head and see how the new gauge will work over there.

So i just take the head switch and put it next to the white one on the filter housing and just extend the wire to connect again?

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Re: Fitting a 2l oil pump in 1.6

Post by HendrikCTI »

Many years ago I had a CTI with the factory gauges.
Cold it read much higher than hot. Yours sounds about right. Cold mine would hit the max pressure on the oil pressure gauge and on hot summer days it would sit on 1 to 1.5 bar at idle.
The oil I used was 20W50 and later 15W40. No effects on pressure.
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Re: Fitting a 2l oil pump in 1.6

Post by Kyle28rsa »

HendrikCTI wrote:Many years ago I had a CTI with the factory gauges.
Cold it read much higher than hot. Yours sounds about right. Cold mine would hit the max pressure on the oil pressure gauge and on hot summer days it would sit on 1 to 1.5 bar at idle.
The oil I used was 20W50 and later 15W40. No effects on pressure.
Was your sensor mounted on the head

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Re: Fitting a 2l oil pump in 1.6

Post by missioner »

Kyle28rsa wrote:
missioner wrote:
missioner wrote:ADY and 2E are both long block. So either would be fine.

The plastic baffle that's on the pump is fine.

Next question, where are you getting your oil pressure readings from? ie where is the sensor or the pipe connected to?

Post pictures.

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The reason I asked this was because it's best to take pressure readings from the head and not from the oil filter housing.

I think this is why you are getting so much variation.

Perhaps get a new gauge that shows the right readings and connect it where the blue oil pressure switch is installed. Move the blue switch to next to the white one and extend the wire for the switch. For this I made a plug in one with a male and female lug on each end and simply taped the connection.

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When you say blue switch, are you talking about the one on the head? I have a brown one over there.

But ill switch the line over to the head and see how the new gauge will work over there.

So i just take the head switch and put it next to the white one on the filter housing and just extend the wire to connect again?

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Exactly correct.

CTI pressure sensor is mounted to the head.

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Re: Fitting a 2l oil pump in 1.6

Post by missioner »

Sorry I do also owe you some explanation,

White is rated at 1.2 bar, blue 0.3 bar and brown at 0.5 ( I think) bar pressures.

Brown and blue switches are largely interchangeable and turn the oil light off. The white one and the rpm signal work together to trigger the flashing oil light and the buzzer. It's a feature baked into the cluster and it's saved me from breaking my engine a few times.

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Re: Fitting a 2l oil pump in 1.6

Post by Kyle28rsa »

Thanks for the info. Ill get new switches 2m and move the oil line over to the head. If the issue still persists. What possible causes could i look into

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Re: Fitting a 2l oil pump in 1.6

Post by Kyle28rsa »

So i bought the switches and placed them all as mentioned above.

The pressure on cold start still kicks the calibration out but it stucks on 2bar instead of 3bar so it dropped by 1. At temp it idles lower now at 0.3bar and at 100km/h it sits at 1.3bar. Oil buzzer still comes on between 80 and 90 km.

Shows to say that readings in the head is ofcoz lower which is typical as its further from the filter.

Any ideas on next steps i can take. Would the issue be in the sub assembly or head? Anything i can check/test without ripping anything apart?

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Re: Fitting a 2l oil pump in 1.6

Post by missioner »

What is the oil pressure when the buzzer comes on?

I get the vibe that the pressure relief valve inside the pump may be stuck or its spring is not good anymore. It's clear that the pump is moving the oil, but the pressure control is not doing what it's meant to.

Stupid question..... When you installed the pump did you take out the distributor to locate the pump drive properly?

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Re: Fitting a 2l oil pump in 1.6

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Pressure is at 1 bar when the buzzer comes on. I always remove the distributor when installing the pump.

This is the 3rd oil pump i tried. Used the 2l one hoping it would give higher readings. And it did but still not in the range that it needs to be. Is there anyway to check if the spring is in good condition or operational at all?

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Re: Fitting a 2l oil pump in 1.6

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Kyle28rsa wrote:Pressure is at 1 bar when the buzzer comes on. I always remove the distributor when installing the pump.

This is the 3rd oil pump i tried. Used the 2l one hoping it would give higher readings. And it did but still not in the range that it needs to be. Is there anyway to check if the spring is in good condition or operational at all?

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Not without removing the pump.

Have a look at the other pumps you have and look for a random bolt or plug on the one side of the main housing. Open it up and have a look at the plunger inside. Be careful there is a spring in there that should have some tension on it. If the spring is collapsed or the plunger is stuck it will explain the problem.

If the pump is all okay then the problem has to be found elsewhere.

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Re: Fitting a 2l oil pump in 1.6

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Hi missionary

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