Polo Vivo 2L 16v ABF conversion

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ICE King
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Car Model: Polo GTI 20V , Mazdarati
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Re: Polo Vivo 2L 16v ABF conversion

Post by ICE King »

missioner wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 10:03 am For 300kW I'd say a turbo, injectors, fuel pump, rods and pistons, CAI, full exhaust and a management system.

To some it may seem like a lot, but that is not even a fully built motor. It has no head work, fancy valves, camshafts, special bearings, nothing really.

The pistons and conrods needed for the additional power are capable of much more than 300, but its to make the motor safe and reliable at that power level, sadly the stock rods are the weak link and known to fail when over 200kW levels.

Cylinder pressure is what its all about and increasing it is what makes more power, reinforcements in strategic places help keep all the ponies and the smoke where they belong.
Agreed , Mods is minimal if you had to mod say a 16 valve to get the same power.

OEM Management will work with some Thanas magic , Stock head is good for 7.2k rpm but stock turbo dies off at around 5k.

The piston's are semi forged, the rods are the weak point but mainly due to the small turbo's torque at early rpm's. They rated at 400nm max at 3k rpm but move the torque higher in the rev range and the stock rods will be fine but for the sake of sleeping better , spending 10k for rods makes sense.
1992 Mazda 323 B3 - Masala Mods
2008 VW POLO GTI - 76mm DP + 63mm exhaust , induction, FMIC, Thanas Tuned
Fiftee
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Re: Polo Vivo 2L 16v ABF conversion

Post by Fiftee »

missioner wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 10:03 am For 300kW I'd say a turbo, injectors, fuel pump, rods and pistons, CAI, full exhaust and a management system.

To some it may seem like a lot, but that is not even a fully built motor. It has no head work, fancy valves, camshafts, special bearings, nothing really.

The pistons and conrods needed for the additional power are capable of much more than 300, but its to make the motor safe and reliable at that power level, sadly the stock rods are the weak link and known to fail when over 200kW levels.

Cylinder pressure is what its all about and increasing it is what makes more power, reinforcements in strategic places help keep all the ponies and the smoke where they belong.
Lol damn man you're so knowledgeable.I wonder if modifications will ever roll of my tongue like they do with you guys on here😭 Anyway , 300kw is a lot , I mean there aren't that many consumer performance hatches that come with that power output stock.I think I would be fine with 180kw if the car would handle it.The nice thing would be that I would know that the motor could give me more with the right upgrades
Fiftee
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Re: Polo Vivo 2L 16v ABF conversion

Post by Fiftee »

ICE King wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 11:25 am
Fiftee wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 2:00 pm
ICE King wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 11:52 am
Fiftee wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2020 1:04 am

Did you but yours brand new? And by minimal mods, how much would that cost , approximately because a jump from 110kw to 300kw is quite a leap for minimal mods
I'm the 2nd Owner with 130k on the clock , I drive it hard(not abuse) at times and it's seen many long roads and not a single issue , even still on factory clutch, Mine is still conservatively tuned and I'm content with the power , more can be had but it's enough to have fun with BMW drivers or easily overtake Vtec's while they are racing.

When I say minimal I'm comparing it to other cars that will need alot of motor work to get to that power, Mechanically the motor just needs a sets of rods then it's good for +-300kw - cost +-10k excl labor

Then the usual mods ,filter, turbo ,fuel pump , injectors , intercooler , boost pipes ,bigger MAF and a tune - this cost will depend on the different brands

But 300kw won't be necessary as the car weighs a little and you'll spins wheels for days , a 180kw 400nm ATF Stage 2+ Polo is enough to keep you busy behind the steering wheel.
That is impressive. The few I have seen on cars.co.za don't come with FSH, but then judging by your experience with the car , I would say they are worth the risk provided they are still in good condition.
Yip they worth the penny and make quick reliable power ,If you find one with a service history then , great , if not , don't be afraid of the 20 valve repairs, parts(OEM & aftermarket) are easy to get hold of VS 16 Valve part's as it's becoming scarce and pricey VS the Newer TSI parts are even more costly ,
Got it.Now I'm sold on the car.It is now on my list of first car options.πŸ–’
ZiF_k
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Re: Polo Vivo 2L 16v ABF conversion

Post by ZiF_k »

Fiftee wrote:
ICE King wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 11:25 am
Fiftee wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 2:00 pm
ICE King wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 11:52 am I'm the 2nd Owner with 130k on the clock , I drive it hard(not abuse) at times and it's seen many long roads and not a single issue , even still on factory clutch, Mine is still conservatively tuned and I'm content with the power , more can be had but it's enough to have fun with BMW drivers or easily overtake Vtec's while they are racing.

When I say minimal I'm comparing it to other cars that will need alot of motor work to get to that power, Mechanically the motor just needs a sets of rods then it's good for +-300kw - cost +-10k excl labor

Then the usual mods ,filter, turbo ,fuel pump , injectors , intercooler , boost pipes ,bigger MAF and a tune - this cost will depend on the different brands

But 300kw won't be necessary as the car weighs a little and you'll spins wheels for days , a 180kw 400nm ATF Stage 2+ Polo is enough to keep you busy behind the steering wheel.
That is impressive. The few I have seen on cars.co.za don't come with FSH, but then judging by your experience with the car , I would say they are worth the risk provided they are still in good condition.
Yip they worth the penny and make quick reliable power ,If you find one with a service history then , great , if not , don't be afraid of the 20 valve repairs, parts(OEM & aftermarket) are easy to get hold of VS 16 Valve part's as it's becoming scarce and pricey VS the Newer TSI parts are even more costly ,
Got it.Now I'm sold on the car.It is now on my list of first car options.πŸ–’
Have a look at some of the 9n3 gti build threads on the forum. Stompie, Nik, Lodie, myself. There's a plenty others which I can't remember off hand now.

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Fiftee
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Re: Polo Vivo 2L 16v ABF conversion

Post by Fiftee »

ZiF_k wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 9:33 am
Fiftee wrote:
ICE King wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 11:25 am
Fiftee wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 2:00 pm
That is impressive. The few I have seen on cars.co.za don't come with FSH, but then judging by your experience with the car , I would say they are worth the risk provided they are still in good condition.
Yip they worth the penny and make quick reliable power ,If you find one with a service history then , great , if not , don't be afraid of the 20 valve repairs, parts(OEM & aftermarket) are easy to get hold of VS 16 Valve part's as it's becoming scarce and pricey VS the Newer TSI parts are even more costly ,
Got it.Now I'm sold on the car.It is now on my list of first car options.πŸ–’
Have a look at some of the 9n3 gti build threads on the forum. Stompie, Nik, Lodie, myself. There's a plenty others which I can't remember off hand now.

Sent from my ANE-LX1 using Tapatalk
πŸ–’
Nova101ify
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Re: Polo Vivo 2L 16v ABF conversion

Post by Nova101ify »

Fiftee wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 2:07 pm
missioner wrote: ↑Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:29 pm Branch is referring to a type of exhaust manifold.

No.1 rule of car modding, don't build what you can buy.
A stock 1.8t will smoke the TSi no problem.

The CLP and CLS engines also respond well to some tuning and have very decent potential, its just that they are not very popular as a choice for performance upgrades. As a result of this the aftermarket support for performance parts isn't very good.

I would never recommend taking a working car as a donor for a swap etc. Leave your daily alone, save some money and buy a broken Polo or Citi and use that as a base for your performance needs .

Many marriages and broken wallets have been saved by following this method.

Project cars make horrible daily drivers.

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I hear you , so it would be a better idea to rather try to find a 1.8T GTi.Apart from the turbo , are there any other issues associated with the 9n3 GTi?
THE 9n3 GTI seems strong, 20v engine, small ko3 turbo doesnt seen to bother many. Try one...
Fiftee
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Re: Polo Vivo 2L 16v ABF conversion

Post by Fiftee »

@Nova will do
Tarquinj
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Re: Polo Vivo 2L 16v ABF conversion

Post by Tarquinj »

Fiftee wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:05 pm Truws posting thus all day yesterday , the page was unavailable.Guys has anyone ever done a 2L conversion on a 9n3 Vivo? Would it be worth it to do it and how much would it cost more or less?

And how good are those Nissan 2L VVL engines ? A dude on Facebook suggested a VVL engine with a dicktator would give mad gains and I liked the idea because it sounded like it didn't require as much parts as the VW 2L 16V , but on second thought ,surely there must be other parts involved like a new gearbox or something?


Last question , would R50K cover whole conversion including the Labour and will the car make for a reliable daily?
Yo buddy, I've been sitting with the same problem for the last year and a half! I have a polo vivo GT (5 door). I'm sitting with about 93kw (that's induction, branches and powerflow being done) after I fix my 02 sensor on the branch I should be doing about 96kw+- (this is without software)... With software I'm looking at about 105kw. I've been wanting a Abf in this GT for as long as I have it but it's going to cost way to much to do it. I'm keen on doing it but when the time is right. Personally I say sell your vivo, get something better and faster. I'm going to trade my GT in for a 2010 Opel GTC and use some extra cash to go stage 2 plus forged internals.

As much as I want to do throttles or a small turbo setup on this 1.6, there is only so much this car can do. There is a guy in cape Town, I think his cars name is bad panda. He done headwork, software and done bottom end work making it a 1.7 and I still doubt he does more than 110kw to about 115kw. The amount spent to do that already is crazy.

If your still doing a home build my suggestion is do a 2l 20v setup with throttles in a mk1 as a toy to play with.
This is just my opinion boet
Have a great one.
Greenz
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Re: Polo Vivo 2L 16v ABF conversion

Post by Greenz »

Tarquinj wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 12:37 pm
Fiftee wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:05 pm Truws posting thus all day yesterday , the page was unavailable.Guys has anyone ever done a 2L conversion on a 9n3 Vivo? Would it be worth it to do it and how much would it cost more or less?

And how good are those Nissan 2L VVL engines ? A dude on Facebook suggested a VVL engine with a dicktator would give mad gains and I liked the idea because it sounded like it didn't require as much parts as the VW 2L 16V , but on second thought ,surely there must be other parts involved like a new gearbox or something?


Last question , would R50K cover whole conversion including the Labour and will the car make for a reliable daily?
Yo buddy, I've been sitting with the same problem for the last year and a half! I have a polo vivo GT (5 door). I'm sitting with about 93kw (that's induction, branches and powerflow being done) after I fix my 02 sensor on the branch I should be doing about 96kw+- (this is without software)... With software I'm looking at about 105kw. I've been wanting a Abf in this GT for as long as I have it but it's going to cost way to much to do it. I'm keen on doing it but when the time is right. Personally I say sell your vivo, get something better and faster. I'm going to trade my GT in for a 2010 Opel GTC and use some extra cash to go stage 2 plus forged internals.

As much as I want to do throttles or a small turbo setup on this 1.6, there is only so much this car can do. There is a guy in cape Town, I think his cars name is bad panda. He done headwork, software and done bottom end work making it a 1.7 and I still doubt he does more than 110kw to about 115kw. The amount spent to do that already is crazy.

If your still doing a home build my suggestion is do a 2l 20v setup with throttles in a mk1 as a toy to play with.
This is just my opinion boet
Have a great one.
GTC is not a wise choice.Weak engines plagued by cooling system issues and replacement part prices are through the roof.No matter how well maintained,it will eventually give **** and once it starts....lol goodluck.

Rather look at 9n3 GTi or something like that IMO.
2010 ST225 - 238kw 439nm
Fiftee
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Re: Polo Vivo 2L 16v ABF conversion

Post by Fiftee »

Tarquinj wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 12:37 pm
Fiftee wrote: ↑Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:05 pm Truws posting thus all day yesterday , the page was unavailable.Guys has anyone ever done a 2L conversion on a 9n3 Vivo? Would it be worth it to do it and how much would it cost more or less?

And how good are those Nissan 2L VVL engines ? A dude on Facebook suggested a VVL engine with a dicktator would give mad gains and I liked the idea because it sounded like it didn't require as much parts as the VW 2L 16V , but on second thought ,surely there must be other parts involved like a new gearbox or something?


Last question , would R50K cover whole conversion including the Labour and will the car make for a reliable daily?
Yo buddy, I've been sitting with the same problem for the last year and a half! I have a polo vivo GT (5 door). I'm sitting with about 93kw (that's induction, branches and powerflow being done) after I fix my 02 sensor on the branch I should be doing about 96kw+- (this is without software)... With software I'm looking at about 105kw. I've been wanting a Abf in this GT for as long as I have it but it's going to cost way to much to do it. I'm keen on doing it but when the time is right. Personally I say sell your vivo, get something better and faster. I'm going to trade my GT in for a 2010 Opel GTC and use some extra cash to go stage 2 plus forged internals.

As much as I want to do throttles or a small turbo setup on this 1.6, there is only so much this car can do. There is a guy in cape Town, I think his cars name is bad panda. He done headwork, software and done bottom end work making it a 1.7 and I still doubt he does more than 110kw to about 115kw. The amount spent to do that already is crazy.

If your still doing a home build my suggestion is do a 2l 20v setup with throttles in a mk1 as a toy to play with.
This is just my opinion boet
Have a great one.
Lol thanks , but I don't have a car , I just had the Vivo in mind as one of my options for a first car and wanted it to be faster than other Vivos. The gains you made , it sounds like you would have been better of buying a 1.9TDi Sportline though it would be hard to find one that is unmolested and then there's the costly repairs if something goes wrong.

I'm thinking of either trying the conversion on a 2000 Polo Classic sedan or getting a 9n3 GTi and then effecting some mods.
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