Dissapointed in power

Post Reply
User avatar
☆KalaMK3
Cadet
Posts: 73
Registered for: 8 years 7 months
Car Make: VW
Car Model: MK3
Location: Roodepoort

Dissapointed in power

Post by ☆KalaMK3 »

Hi all. I am a tad dissapointed w.r.t power on my APK import. Motor was rebuilt and running a 276 cam + 4-2-1 branch + stock 1.6 mk3 zorst, rest is stock. 60-2 dictator tuned at 2 tuners with the max output of 72wkw.

Any reasoning or info as to why she pulls so swak would be appreciated.

Pic of dyno sheet attached.
Image

Sent from my SM-G610F using Tapatalk

User avatar
PapaJo
Brigadier
Posts: 6984
Registered for: 13 years 11 months
Car Make: VW's
Car Model: '16 7R, '86 Caddy AUM 20VT
Membership No: missing
Location: Meyerton or Offshore Guyana.

Re: Dissapointed in power

Post by PapaJo »

The stock 1.6 mk3 exhaust is robbing you of more power.
User avatar
☆KalaMK3
Cadet
Posts: 73
Registered for: 8 years 7 months
Car Make: VW
Car Model: MK3
Location: Roodepoort

Re: Dissapointed in power

Post by ☆KalaMK3 »

PapaJo wrote:The stock 1.6 mk3 exhaust is robbing you of more power.
30kw of power?

Sent from my SM-G610F using Tapatalk

User avatar
☆KalaMK3
Cadet
Posts: 73
Registered for: 8 years 7 months
Car Make: VW
Car Model: MK3
Location: Roodepoort

Re: Dissapointed in power

Post by ☆KalaMK3 »

20kw*

Sent from my SM-G610F using Tapatalk

User avatar
Jetta2
Field Marshal
Posts: 14929
Registered for: 17 years 3 months
Car Make: VW, VW, Aprilia
Car Model: Mk3 Golf VR6, Mk4 Caddy, RSV4
Membership No: 1087
Location: Menlo Park, Pretoria

Re: Dissapointed in power

Post by Jetta2 »

APK motor is rated by VW to have 85kW and 170nM at the flywheel, at the coast.
Drivetrain losses, altitude, warra warra, and the 72kW ATW is not a bad figure, actually.
Ryan Demoser

1996 Mk3 Golf VR6
2017 Caddy Maxi Crew Bus 2.0 TDI
2013 Aprilia RSV4 track toy
2021 Aprilia RS660 road bike
User avatar
RedBeard
Cadet
Posts: 79
Registered for: 6 years 6 months
Car Make: Volkswagen
Car Model: Mk1 2-door Golf

Re: Dissapointed in power

Post by RedBeard »

:lol: Could be stuck with 50 odd kw like i am
Daily : 2011 Toyota Aygo 1.0 (Tiny)
Soon-To-Be-Project : 1981 VW Golf 2-door (Unikorn)
Link for slow build - viewtopic.php?f=11&t=208217

Ex : 2005 Hayundai Getz 1.3(Chuckie)
User avatar
☆KalaMK3
Cadet
Posts: 73
Registered for: 8 years 7 months
Car Make: VW
Car Model: MK3
Location: Roodepoort

Re: Dissapointed in power

Post by ☆KalaMK3 »

Jetta2 wrote:APK motor is rated by VW to have 85kW and 170nM at the flywheel, at the coast.
Drivetrain losses, altitude, warra warra, and the 72kW ATW is not a bad figure, actually.
Yet stock 2e's etc pull more?

Sent from my SM-G610F using Tapatalk

User avatar
Jetta2
Field Marshal
Posts: 14929
Registered for: 17 years 3 months
Car Make: VW, VW, Aprilia
Car Model: Mk3 Golf VR6, Mk4 Caddy, RSV4
Membership No: 1087
Location: Menlo Park, Pretoria

Re: Dissapointed in power

Post by Jetta2 »

2E motor is also rated at 85kW at the flywheel at the coast.

And remember this: no two dyno readings or dyno operators are the same, so comparing your cars output to someone elses that was was done on a different dyno on a different day under different conditions in a different city at different altitude is 100% pointless.

And like Papajo said, the stock 1.6 exhaust is holding back some power. Definately not 20kW worth, but some.
Ryan Demoser

1996 Mk3 Golf VR6
2017 Caddy Maxi Crew Bus 2.0 TDI
2013 Aprilia RSV4 track toy
2021 Aprilia RS660 road bike
User avatar
PapaJo
Brigadier
Posts: 6984
Registered for: 13 years 11 months
Car Make: VW's
Car Model: '16 7R, '86 Caddy AUM 20VT
Membership No: missing
Location: Meyerton or Offshore Guyana.

Re: Dissapointed in power

Post by PapaJo »

72wkw not taking account losses due to drive train would be around 92-94kw on flywheel.

Dependes on the flow chararistics and brand of a free flow system, you could on average expect an increase of maybe up to 3kw if you are lucky.

51mm to 57mm progressive exhaust system is a good size for a 2L motor wirh cam.
User avatar
☆KalaMK3
Cadet
Posts: 73
Registered for: 8 years 7 months
Car Make: VW
Car Model: MK3
Location: Roodepoort

Re: Dissapointed in power

Post by ☆KalaMK3 »

I'll pass, will do compression test, check fuel pressure and then slap on a turbo kit.

Sent from my SM-G610F using Tapatalk

User avatar
☆KalaMK3
Cadet
Posts: 73
Registered for: 8 years 7 months
Car Make: VW
Car Model: MK3
Location: Roodepoort

Re: Dissapointed in power

Post by ☆KalaMK3 »

Jetta2 wrote:2E motor is also rated at 85kW at the flywheel at the coast.

And remember this: no two dyno readings or dyno operators are the same, so comparing your cars output to someone elses that was was done on a different dyno on a different day under different conditions in a different city at different altitude is 100% pointless.

And like Papajo said, the stock 1.6 exhaust is holding back some power. Definately not 20kW worth, but some.
Yo bud. I see that you have done an 8vT on stock bottom end. Anymore info on this? I would obviously do as stated aboveImage firstly, and would want it te be reliable.

Sent from my SM-G610F using Tapatalk

User avatar
Jetta2
Field Marshal
Posts: 14929
Registered for: 17 years 3 months
Car Make: VW, VW, Aprilia
Car Model: Mk3 Golf VR6, Mk4 Caddy, RSV4
Membership No: 1087
Location: Menlo Park, Pretoria

Re: Dissapointed in power

Post by Jetta2 »

It was built over lots of years and lots of trial and error. I will not even go into the cost aspect. It was an expensive learning curve.
In the end, a stock ADY motor was used, spacer plate to drop the compression ratio, ARP studs in the stock conrods, stock pistons, X-flow head, custom designed inlet manifold, custom exhaust manifold, Perfect Power XMS5 tuned by Panic, tons of custom one-off bits, and did 195kmh on the 1km at ODI, and did a reliable 240.5Hp (179kW) and 301Nm ATW on 0.9Bar boost with a Garrett GT2871R ball bearing turbo on Panic's dyno.
Ryan Demoser

1996 Mk3 Golf VR6
2017 Caddy Maxi Crew Bus 2.0 TDI
2013 Aprilia RSV4 track toy
2021 Aprilia RS660 road bike
User avatar
panic-mechanic
Panic's Place
Posts: 26715
Registered for: 21 years 7 months
Membership No: 79
Location: Benoni, putfontein.

Re: Dissapointed in power

Post by panic-mechanic »

That power is about spot on for the reef and as mentioned restricted by the exhaust system. I'm unsure what kind of power numbers you were expecting.
Remember up here you have 17% less than the advertised numbers from any factory as that is rated to sea level flywheel KW.
Stephan van Tonder - Jhb - Putfontein Benoni
'05 Audi A6 3.0L TDI Avant
'09 Touareg 3l TDI
'13 VW CC 2l tdi (repair project)
'05 Touareg v10

Perfect Power dealer. I do dyno tuning.
User avatar
☆KalaMK3
Cadet
Posts: 73
Registered for: 8 years 7 months
Car Make: VW
Car Model: MK3
Location: Roodepoort

Re: Dissapointed in power

Post by ☆KalaMK3 »

Jetta2 wrote:It was built over lots of years and lots of trial and error. I will not even go into the cost aspect. It was an expensive learning curve.
In the end, a stock ADY motor was used, spacer plate to drop the compression ratio, ARP studs in the stock conrods, stock pistons, X-flow head, custom designed inlet manifold, custom exhaust manifold, Perfect Power XMS5 tuned by Panic, tons of custom one-off bits, and did 195kmh on the 1km at ODI, and did a reliable 240.5Hp (179kW) and 301Nm ATW on 0.9Bar boost with a Garrett GT2871R ball bearing turbo on Panic's dyno.
Where did you obtain the spacer?


Sent from my SM-G610F using Tapatalk

User avatar
☆KalaMK3
Cadet
Posts: 73
Registered for: 8 years 7 months
Car Make: VW
Car Model: MK3
Location: Roodepoort

Re: Dissapointed in power

Post by ☆KalaMK3 »

panic-mechanic wrote:That power is about spot on for the reef and as mentioned restricted by the exhaust system. I'm unsure what kind of power numbers you were expecting.
Remember up here you have 17% less than the advertised numbers from any factory as that is rated to sea level flywheel KW.
Several tuners and others running 8v setups expected atleast 90wkw so was obviously a tad dissapointed. I did pm you though regarding some tech questions should you not mind answering. I will obviously go the route as jetta 2 stated and will obviously be saving plenty as my dad is a specialised welder and the plumbing and custom bits wont touch my pocket that much. Motor was rebuild with new hardware all round so just planning on doing ARP rod bolts and copper gasket maybe?

I also saw on your panic's place post there is a number we can message. Would you mind me contacting you there

Sent from my SM-G610F using Tapatalk

User avatar
panic-mechanic
Panic's Place
Posts: 26715
Registered for: 21 years 7 months
Membership No: 79
Location: Benoni, putfontein.

Re: Dissapointed in power

Post by panic-mechanic »

Unless there is a LOT of work going into an apk in N/a form ther is no way that thing is making 90 wheel kw at the reef.
That is the stuff pipe dreams are made of.
Stephan van Tonder - Jhb - Putfontein Benoni
'05 Audi A6 3.0L TDI Avant
'09 Touareg 3l TDI
'13 VW CC 2l tdi (repair project)
'05 Touareg v10

Perfect Power dealer. I do dyno tuning.
Stu
Lieutenant-Colonel
Posts: 4565
Registered for: 17 years 10 months
Car Make: Merc
Car Model: C63 Edition 507
Membership No: missing
Location: Eastrand

Re: Dissapointed in power

Post by Stu »

not bad about 8wkw off what a stock fiesta st150 make on reef
Polo 20VBigT - The Redhead
Kia Sportage - The Silver Surfer
C63 507 Edition - The Dragon
Isuzu 4x4 - Little Joe
Rustler Bakkie - Good Old Jimmy
User avatar
☆KalaMK3
Cadet
Posts: 73
Registered for: 8 years 7 months
Car Make: VW
Car Model: MK3
Location: Roodepoort

Re: Dissapointed in power

Post by ☆KalaMK3 »

Stu wrote:not bad about 8wkw off what a stock fiesta st150 make on reef
They 1.6T right?

Sent from my SM-G610F using Tapatalk

User avatar
Jetta2
Field Marshal
Posts: 14929
Registered for: 17 years 3 months
Car Make: VW, VW, Aprilia
Car Model: Mk3 Golf VR6, Mk4 Caddy, RSV4
Membership No: 1087
Location: Menlo Park, Pretoria

Re: Dissapointed in power

Post by Jetta2 »

☆KalaMK3 wrote: Mon May 14, 2018 1:07 pm
Stu wrote:not bad about 8wkw off what a stock fiesta st150 make on reef
They 1.6T right?

Sent from my SM-G610F using Tapatalk
2.0 naturally aspirated.
Ryan Demoser

1996 Mk3 Golf VR6
2017 Caddy Maxi Crew Bus 2.0 TDI
2013 Aprilia RSV4 track toy
2021 Aprilia RS660 road bike
Stu
Lieutenant-Colonel
Posts: 4565
Registered for: 17 years 10 months
Car Make: Merc
Car Model: C63 Edition 507
Membership No: missing
Location: Eastrand

Re: Dissapointed in power

Post by Stu »

yip Jetta2 is right they 2L NA motors - new fezz st180 is 1.6L T
Polo 20VBigT - The Redhead
Kia Sportage - The Silver Surfer
C63 507 Edition - The Dragon
Isuzu 4x4 - Little Joe
Rustler Bakkie - Good Old Jimmy
Post Reply