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The Bosch MP9 ECU 
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Hi all,
Well now I own this MP9 system, all from a 2l polo.
What I need to know now is what needs to happen to this ECU?
-Does it need it be 'unlocked'?
and if so...
-The EPROM chip is soldered onto the board, not in a socket. Is it possible to 'lay' the board over an EPROM programmer socket with the pins touching to reprogram it?
-Where can I get hold of the HEX file to reprogram this thing?

I know it costs something like R950 to have it done at the performance places, is this correct?
How do they do it? Must be with an EPROM programmer.

The electronics place in CT (communica) wants +-R900 for a programmer. Will this do the job, or do I need a specific one?

Thanks
Mark

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Sat Jun 10, 2006 11:34 am
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Oh, and anyone know where I can get a wiring diagram, or a plug layout diagram for the main connector on this ECU? I spose I could 'decode' it myself, but don't wanna cross anything and see smoke...

Thanks
Mark V

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Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:39 pm
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Depending on type of MP9 ECU you can program it with a generic Eprom Programmer :)

What do want to achieve with this ECU ?

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Sun Jun 11, 2006 6:31 pm
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Just wanna run it in my Golf 3 GTi. Replacing the Digifant system.

It's the MP9 ECU from a 2l POLO. The Manufacturing year on the inside is 1998.
Like I said, the EPROM chip is soldered onto the board, not in a socket. So If it is to be reprogrammed, it has to be layed ontop of the programmer with the pins touching, or small leads soldered onto every leg and connected to the programmer that way.

Anyone done their own MP9? Or has everyone who's needed to do this just done the 'norm' and gone to the 'pros'?
With a little knowhow I reccon anyone can do it, which I'm all for.

Just need to finn out what needs to be changed in the HEX file once it's downloaded off the chip.

Also, do all MP9 ECU's have this transponder thing that needs to be removed from the EPROM? Basically, with mine being from a 2l already, does it even need to be reprogrammed?

Thanks

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Sun Jun 11, 2006 7:11 pm
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zit501 wrote:
Also, do all MP9 ECU's have this transponder thing that needs to be removed from the EPROM? Basically, with mine being from a 2l already, does it even need to be reprogrammed?

Thanks


as far as I know yes. if you in jhb, pm Ted on this forum, apparently his old man works with these things.

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Sun Jun 11, 2006 9:06 pm
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Can u get the interface program to the cpu ?

i.e use ure laptop to chhange the settings ?


Mon Jun 12, 2006 7:15 am
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Well, I've got VAG-COM cables if that's what you're asking...

Is the transponder part removed through there?

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Mon Jun 12, 2006 7:29 am
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Phone Ray on this number 0825557785. He will sort you out chop chop. He is in PTA.


Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:31 am
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Ok I thought I would respond here rather than in your PM.

First of all the older Polo's didn't come in 2.0, however SAC did a 2.0 conversion and dubbed it the "Polotech". So if it says 2.0 on the ECU then chances are it is from an MP9-equipped MK3 GTi.

For this very reason I wouldn't bother trying to change anything on the chip, and AFAIK the IC is actually a PROM and not an EPROM or EEPROM, so you won't be able to change anything on it anyway. You would have to unsolder the old IC, program a new one and solder that one in.

That box probably does still have the immobiliser in it, so you are going to have to get that removed anyway. And no it can't be removed through the OBDII port.

As Nico said, give Ray a call... he knows his stuff when it comes to MP9 ECUs and his pricing is very good.

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Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:01 am
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Thanks guys. I will give Ray a call.

I've been speaking to alot of people about it. Alot of electronics people too. The chip is marked with TMS15JT and a bosch part number. Some of the electonics guys have tracked down the chips true identity, finding out that it is a programmable chip. Just need to have a good look for a data sheet on the thing and I'll be able to get a definate answer.

Failing that, I'll just desolder the chip, buy a 28 pin socket from Communica, and a bunch of equivalent programmable chips and a programmer... And have a good time palying around. Get it running on the bench! Hook up the VAG-COM to the K-Line and get some read outs!

Found alot of great software on the net for programming maps onto these chips. Give you 3D graphs and everything! A very cheap alternative to aftermarket management, and it's all by just replacing the chip. This way you can just pull the chip out, pop it in the porgrammer, reprogram, pop back in the ECU, and test out the new map.

With the chips being really cheap too, you can carry around a couple of maps too! Would also look into designing a small circuit to put 2 chips on a board, and have a switch on the dash to switch between them.

Good times...

The chip in the ECU has a window on it, meaning that it is an EPROM. The window is to erase it with a UV light. Making it a UV erasable EPROM.
Looking into getting a programmer, either in CT, or on Ebay.

Will speak to Ray first though.

Maybe the box is out of a later GTi 3. I thought that there was a 2l polo though... probably me just gettin mixed up! :lol:

I'll keep you guys up to date.

Ciao for now.
Mark

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Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:20 am
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We offer remaps on these ecus as well and have done a lot of work on it.

The EPROM is a 27C512

You have PM :)

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Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:34 am
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zit501 wrote:
Thanks guys. I will give Ray a call.

I've been speaking to alot of people about it. Alot of electronics people too. The chip is marked with TMS15JT and a bosch part number. Some of the electonics guys have tracked down the chips true identity, finding out that it is a programmable chip. Just need to have a good look for a data sheet on the thing and I'll be able to get a definate answer.

Failing that, I'll just desolder the chip, buy a 28 pin socket from Communica, and a bunch of equivalent programmable chips and a programmer... And have a good time palying around. Get it running on the bench! Hook up the VAG-COM to the K-Line and get some read outs!

Found alot of great software on the net for programming maps onto these chips. Give you 3D graphs and everything! A very cheap alternative to aftermarket management, and it's all by just replacing the chip. This way you can just pull the chip out, pop it in the porgrammer, reprogram, pop back in the ECU, and test out the new map.

With the chips being really cheap too, you can carry around a couple of maps too! Would also look into designing a small circuit to put 2 chips on a board, and have a switch on the dash to switch between them.

Good times...

The chip in the ECU has a window on it, meaning that it is an EPROM. The window is to erase it with a UV light. Making it a UV erasable EPROM.
Looking into getting a programmer, either in CT, or on Ebay.

Will speak to Ray first though.

Maybe the box is out of a later GTi 3. I thought that there was a 2l polo though... probably me just gettin mixed up! :lol:

I'll keep you guys up to date.

Ciao for now.
Mark


Although I am not an electronics guru, I know what an EPROM is. :wink: So it seems like older ones come with an EPROM and the newer ones a PROM.

See what you have in mind is totally different to what you put across. I thought you just wanted to get your MP9 system working, you never mentioned previously that you want to experiment with different maps, etc. :wink:

The problem is how are you going to see if the changes you make to a value in the map are in fact being beneficial? Are you going to be doing this on a dyno?

Nope the older Polos never came out in 2.0... only 1.4, 1.6 and 1.8. The new ones however do come in 2.0, but they don't run MP9.

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Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:49 am
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The newer ECUs have a OTP (One Time Programmable) chip so its still a EPROM (Electrically Programmable Read Only Memory).

The older ECUs had a EPROM that could be erased using UV Light hence the quartz window :wink:

Remapping an ECU is not as simple as removing and refitting a new EPROM :shock:

We have spent close on to 8 months working on the MP9 system to fully be able to remap it effectively 8) [/b]

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Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:03 am
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20VT wrote:
The newer ECUs have a OTP (One Time Programmable) chip so its still a EPROM (Electrically Programmable Read Only Memory).

The older ECUs had a EPROM that could be erased using UV Light hence the quartz window :wink:

Remapping an ECU is not as simple as removing and refitting a new EPROM :shock:

We have spent close on to 8 months working on the MP9 system to fully be able to remap it effectively 8) [/b]


I always though EPROM stood for Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory?

How much do you guys charge to remap an MP9 ECU and how accurate will the fuelling and timing be? I am running a 2.0 shortblock motor with a 272 cam and vernier on a stock 2.0 MP9 ECU.

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Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:19 am
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Ya, I do just want to get the MP9 working... for now! :lol:

I'm always up for finding DIY performance, because it usually comes out cheaper. And this helps out my fellow students. (i.e. people strapped for cash)

Now don't say the classic line: "cutting corners will just end up costing more in the long run"

I'm not cutting corners, I'm going to have my MP9 ECU redone. Ted has offered to do it for me.
At the same time, I think I might also get some spare chips and a programmer to experiment. There's no harm in that.
And there's alot of software on the net to mess around with.

I know that the only way to see gains in on the Dyno, but like I said, I'm just experimenting as to what this MP9 is capable of.
There's alot of other "tuning companies" out there that started by doin what I'm wanting to do, and I'm not planning on splitting the atom here, just messing around for my own enjoyment.

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Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:21 am
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20VT PM'd me. He wants R2400 :shock: to do an MP9.

How can it all be accurate if it's done emulating the motor? All motors are different. The programming would have to be done on the dyno, or at least in the car.

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Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:25 am
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Quote:
Ted has offered to do it for me.


Ray is his dad. :wink:


Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:33 am
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zit501 wrote:
20VT PM'd me. He wants R2400 :shock: to do an MP9.

How can it all be accurate if it's done emulating the motor? All motors are different. The programming would have to be done on the dyno, or at least in the car.


We only emulate and do the tuning on a dyno/in the car using a wideband lambda probe - thats the only way you can ensure the ECU is programmed for the engine :)

We do not fit a "generic 2.0" chip I think you misunderstood my PM :wink:

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Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:55 am
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You can always just fit a piggy back for +- the same and tune it just as well ?

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Mon Jun 12, 2006 12:15 pm
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Quote:
Ray is his dad.


Ya, Ted replied to my PM. I asked him if Ray was his dad, but he hasn't replied yet. But now I know...

He said R350, which sounds like a fair price.

Think I'm gonna have that done, and then experiment a bit later on.

Maybe the normal piggy back, or maybe chip programming.

I assume that Ray would just program the normal 2.0 map, and obviously remove the transponder code.

Thanks for all info guys!

Chip tuning seems like a hotter topic on the international forums than on the SA ones, so it's nice to get a good thread going.

Ciao
Mark

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Mon Jun 12, 2006 12:40 pm
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Quote:
Think I'm gonna have that done, and then experiment a bit later on.


No need for that - you won't find a better piggy back system than what Ray can do for you. Cheapest is not always the worst. :wink:

He modified my computer box on my race car, and on my Caddy when it was 2.0 mp9, and I was extremely happy with the result.


Mon Jun 12, 2006 12:50 pm
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zit501 wrote:
He said R350, which sounds like a fair price.


Yup fair for just copying a chip :wink:

Thats not remapping an ecu is about :o

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Mon Jun 12, 2006 1:01 pm
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Quote:
Yup fair for just copying a chip

Thats not remapping an ecu is about


Yes 20VT that is just for copying a chip. But that's what most people need. Your service sounds good, but I don't have R2.4k... and if I did I think I might as well just go the piggy back route... Like my toys! :lol:

Quote:
No need for that - you won't find a better piggy back system than what Ray can do for you.


Mk1-fan, doesn't ray just load the standard 2.0map? Or can he load a performace map too? Were you running the MP9 with or without a piggy back in your race car?

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Mon Jun 12, 2006 1:16 pm
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zit501 wrote:
Quote:
Yup fair for just copying a chip

Thats not remapping an ecu is about


Yes 20VT that is just for copying a chip. But that's what most people need. Your service sounds good, but I don't have R2.4k... and if I did I think I might as well just go the piggy back route... Like my toys! :lol:

Quote:
No need for that - you won't find a better piggy back system than what Ray can do for you.


Mk1-fan, doesn't ray just load the standard 2.0map? Or can he load a performace map too? Were you running the MP9 with or without a piggy back in your race car?


OK, I don't know what the technical term is, but he programed both my computer boxes to what I had done to the car.

The race car was a 1.8 8v mp9 with flowed head, manifolds and a 300deg cam that made 130hp at the wheels.

The Caddy had a 2.0 mp9 with flowed head and a 272 cam that made 106hp at the wheels.


Mon Jun 12, 2006 1:27 pm
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Sounds good.
Did the caddy still run like stock? My setup will be very similar, just without the flowed head. 2E engine, 272 cam, and powerflow zaust.

Mark

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