What would you recommend?

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DCShoes
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What would you recommend?

Post by DCShoes »

Hi Guys and Girls,

I'm not sure what I should do here, so I'm asking for input and opinions.
Have been through FAQ's, and all the posts related to this including Panics write up, but still don't have an actual definitive answer.

I've got an AGG motor hooked to an FFZ box.
Viper 4-2-1 branch with 57mm stainless freeflow.
Currently running carb, but very soon will be going onto FI with a Spitronics standard - everythings already in, must just change inlet manifold and tank.
I can get my hands on an Estas 272 cam in good condition.

Should I change the standard cam to this, and if so, why?
What gain could I expect by doing this - in other words, would it be worth it?
And, going the above route with FI, should I put a vernier pulley on, or is that not really needed?

At the end of the day, I still want a driveable "daily" car so if I do go cam route, don't want something lumpy or unreliable.
Ideally would like a strong torquey motor with extra grunt and speed - would this cam make a difference?
Cams etc are still a bit of a grey area for me - don't think I've learnt everything I should/could about them, so I'll rather ask those in the know to point me in the right direction....

Thanks,
doctordubs
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Re: What would you recommend?

Post by doctordubs »

itl extend your powerband through the rev range and free up some power. as well as improved torque and throttle response. 272 is a good street duration so I rate itd be a wise choice.
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chucker02
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Re: What would you recommend?

Post by chucker02 »

272 is nice but the perfect cam for a 2L is a 282. The 272 will run out of steam at about 5700rpm. But the 272 is a good all rounder
Current:

2006 Citi Golf 2E, Dictator, 4-2-1

Ex:
2003 Audi A3 1.8t, Thanas Tuned, FMIC, coilies, DP and exhaust
2007 Citi golf. ADY with Spitronics 60-2, estas 282, 4-2-1, coilies
Rides thread: http://vwclub.co.za/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=183329
2002 Citi golf. ADY carb, estas 282, 4-2-1, GW delarey big brake kit.
Rides thread: http://vwclub.co.za/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=157603
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Van777
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Re: What would you recommend?

Post by Van777 »

FI will be better all round and with power and tuning.
272 nice for everyday driving. Lekker torque from low revs.
Vinier pully not neccecery( sorry for spelling) but will be better to get one.
If you have Spitronics already, keep it. If not rather buy Dicktator. Much better.
A nice branch and free flow will also work.

If you stick with Spitronics. Please find a proper tuner. When I had Psitronics in my golf 1 and ahalf years back i could not fine a proper tuner in Gauteng.

Sarel from 8 valve performance took the spetronicw out installed dicktator. My golf runn much beter, performance was much better. Fuel comsumption was much better I gained 9kw from this change.

Good luck.

My 2 cents
Golf 1 1996 model
AGG 2.0 Lt motor
Gasflowed head stage 2
288 Estas cam
57mm Cowley Exhaust
Wild Cat branch 4-2-1
Dicktator
Oom Poy Special Gearbox.
92kw and 168Nm on 8V performance dyno.
And BIG sound. 147db daily drive.
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Reegz
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Re: What would you recommend?

Post by Reegz »

272 and a vernier pulley. Decent balance and economy for a daily drive.
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DCShoes
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Re: What would you recommend?

Post by DCShoes »

Thanks guys for your input so far....

Sounds like the 272 will be able to deliver what I'm looking for, so I think I'll go for it.
@van777 - spitronics is already in, I had Dictator in my 1st caddy bakkie and HATED it, no one could ever get it tuned right and it "suiped" petrol- stupidly it was the reason I gave up on it and sold the bakkie.

Apparently RBTS are the guys in the know when it comes to tuning Spitronics - guess I'm going to have to see.

But thanks for the advice, I'll probably start a ride thread with all the things I'm going to be doing to the golf in the next few weeks, so I'll keep everyone updated.
Van777
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Re: What would you recommend?

Post by Van777 »

Good luck.
If you dont have a cam yet. Buy a Estas 272 cam and venier. They about R1800.
Golf 1 1996 model
AGG 2.0 Lt motor
Gasflowed head stage 2
288 Estas cam
57mm Cowley Exhaust
Wild Cat branch 4-2-1
Dicktator
Oom Poy Special Gearbox.
92kw and 168Nm on 8V performance dyno.
And BIG sound. 147db daily drive.
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panic-mechanic
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Re: What would you recommend?

Post by panic-mechanic »

Image
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here is a dyno graph. Same engine - same management - tuned to be correct for both the cams - overlaid.
It's a AGG 2l 8v - stock in every other way.
One is the stock cam - one is a 282.
So as you can see the stock cam makes both more torque(by quite a bit) low down and more hp. Past 5200 rpm the story is reversed and the long duration cam works better.
So now this is personal choice - do you constantly rev the snot out of it where the big cam give you the benefit or do you rarely rev it hard.
If the latter then don't put in a cam. It comes with a fuel consumption penalty and some annoyance factor.
if you can live with those then go for the cam.
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Re: What would you recommend?

Post by SemiColon »

Damn, that's quite a bit of sacrifice for ~10hp

Thanks for the Graph.

It would be cool to impose another graph, also the 282, but with supporting mods too, like head flow etc.
Will it reach 'stock' levels of low/midrange power to negate the low end losses of the cam?
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Re: What would you recommend?

Post by panic-mechanic »

It's a customer car and we actually went back to the stock not the other way around.
But even with supporting mods you still pay a penatly low down.
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UzziB
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Re: What would you recommend?

Post by UzziB »

By looking at that graph it just seems like the powerband was moved higher up, is it really worth it panic?
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DCShoes
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Re: What would you recommend?

Post by DCShoes »

Thanks guys for your input,

I'm going to go the 276 cam route with uprated spring kit, I'm hoping the 276 will still be a good all-rounder for a daily as well as beef up a bit of performance.
@Panic - I'm not always in the high rev range on normal daily driving, but on the track it would be different, so I'm going with your advice.
doctordubs
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Re: What would you recommend?

Post by doctordubs »

And that my dear friends is why iv turned to split duration cams as fitted in my jetta. 272/285. The best of all worlds.

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Re: What would you recommend?

Post by SemiColon »

doctordubs wrote:And that my dear friends is why iv turned to split duration cams as fitted in my jetta. 272/285. The best of all worlds.

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Post a pic of your dynograph
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Re: What would you recommend?

Post by Brotiform »

Split duration cams are ****.

Also that AGG is sick. My 2.0i 8v shortblock sacrificed no low end going from stock to 276 ...
"Your whole year's po3s also, bud" - Ghandi
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Re: What would you recommend?

Post by SemiColon »

Brotiform wrote:Split duration cams are ****.

Also that AGG is sick. My 2.0i 8v shortblock sacrificed no low end going from stock to 276 ...
This post is useless without dynographs.
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doctordubs
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Re: What would you recommend?

Post by doctordubs »

I dont do "dyna" tuning. Unless its a turbo vehicle. Im running a the original 1600 block, fudge knows wat conrods, they fit, and 1mm oversize AKL pistons. Lightened flywheel, K.jet 2.0 head with special fettling and a pair of dellorto 40s. Oh and a 57mm zorst. Duno power, dont care. Iv raced much "stronger" cars and pulled them silly. Im a real tuner/technician. Dont need sum million rand machine to tell me if my cars pulling better. Iv hammered many a vtec, couple of prob stock 5gti, the odd 330i. So I know my setup works and believe me. Iv tried all sorts of cams lol.

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doctordubs
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Re: What would you recommend?

Post by doctordubs »

Btw. Split duration cams are not easily perfected. My cams are all done by an old racing legend named Richie Jute.

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Re: What would you recommend?

Post by Brotiform »

Loooool
"Your whole year's po3s also, bud" - Ghandi
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Re: What would you recommend?

Post by panic-mechanic »

Lekker man lekker. Here is where I will exit the thread now.
Good for you.
Bye
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DCShoes
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Re: What would you recommend?

Post by DCShoes »

:hijack:

Thanks to those (few) of you for hi-jacking my thread, and sending it COMPLETELY off track.....

And to the other few who DID give me input and sensible advice - much appreciated :hi:

Hope to see you at an event where we can chat about the mods I've done based on your recommendations.
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Re: What would you recommend?

Post by Torker »

272 is a very mild cam, perfect for a daily. I had a 298 in my daily driver (2.0 8V Velo) and I enjoyed every second of it, never left me on the side of the road, never over heated or gave any issues so at the end of the day it boils down to what you can live with. My LS had a 288, also 2.0 8V and that car was so smooth to drive, no mid range jerking or lumpiness, revved like a 16V with the rev limiter set to 6900, made 118whp at HM, more than enough power in a light weight body.
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DCShoes
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Re: What would you recommend?

Post by DCShoes »

Thanks for the info Torker,

Think I'm going to go with the 276 for now, see what its like.
Who knows, might get itchy to "move up" in cams once I get used to what the 276 can/will do.
doctordubs
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Re: What would you recommend?

Post by doctordubs »

Sorry man. Got carried away. People dont agree that my combinations work as theyre not the norm. Unfortunately theres recipes that evrybody follow coz they work. Im not a hater, just like to prove that other odd recipes can and do work. Good luck with ur car.

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Re: What would you recommend?

Post by PoLonY »

Brotiform wrote:Loooool
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