2.0 Block with 16V KR Head

Post Reply
User avatar
KID'K
Cadet
Posts: 113
Registered for: 12 years 6 months
Car Make: vw
Car Model: Kombi Pannelvan, MK2 CSL
Membership No: missing
Location: Tembisa

2.0 Block with 16V KR Head

Post by KID'K »

Hi guys, I've recently acquired a 16valve KR head from a friend of mine. the head came complete with cams and Manifolds, I am currently working on a golf MK2 and I would like to fit this head on to a 2.0 ADY/2E/AGG Sub-assembly and Run it with an aftermarket EMU. I have done some research on the forum and to my understanding the head will be a direct fit on the block, no modification should be done to head for it to fit, the 8valve pistons have to be decked by 5mm or so to for valve clearance and the 8v distributor should not be removed from the block since it runs the oil pump on the 8V block, here are some things I would like to know about this conversion:

1. Since the 16v Head did not come with any of the pulleys from the KR Block will the 2E block’s pulleys work fine with this head without any modification. If not what should be done to the pulleys to accommodate this head?

2. Since I'll be running EFI which fuel rail would be best to use on the Head, where can I get one at a reasonable price? Will the OEM (MP9) Injectors work perfectly with the 16V head or should I opt for bigger injectors for better performance?

3. Which head gasket would be best for the conversion?

4.I have also read on the forum that the 210mm spring centered copper clutch is the best clutch to use on a high revving motor with the FFZ gearbox, I would like to know how much am I looking at for the clutch and where can I get it from I'm based in Kempton Park.



Please feel free to advice on any other thing that needs to be done to the Head/Block to make this conversion work.


Many thanks
Metja
Image

In this industry nothing just bolts on. you've got to just make it fit.
a1aa1992
Cadet
Posts: 80
Registered for: 10 years 11 months

Re: 2.0 Block with 16V KR Head

Post by a1aa1992 »

i think with the 2E block and 16v head the CR will be 8.5 it's very low to go N.A
Image
User avatar
graham savage
Colonel
Posts: 5035
Registered for: 18 years 5 months
Car Make: VW
Car Model: Caddy's, Mk2's, Mk4, Ford etc
Membership No: 803
Location: Johannesburg
Contact:

Re: 2.0 Block with 16V KR Head

Post by graham savage »

If you want to stay NA you'll need a set of 2.0 16v pistons.
User avatar
KID'K
Cadet
Posts: 113
Registered for: 12 years 6 months
Car Make: vw
Car Model: Kombi Pannelvan, MK2 CSL
Membership No: missing
Location: Tembisa

Re: 2.0 Block with 16V KR Head

Post by KID'K »

Thanks guys.

Which 2.0 16v Pistons would be suitable for the application between the 9A pistons and the ABF or are the 16 valve pistons all the same? Do you guys know by any chance how much I may be looking at for a set of 2.0 16 valve pistons?
Image

In this industry nothing just bolts on. you've got to just make it fit.
User avatar
graham savage
Colonel
Posts: 5035
Registered for: 18 years 5 months
Car Make: VW
Car Model: Caddy's, Mk2's, Mk4, Ford etc
Membership No: 803
Location: Johannesburg
Contact:

Re: 2.0 Block with 16V KR Head

Post by graham savage »

New? Around R5k for the set.

Better you either sell that lot and buy an ABF or turbo it
User avatar
KID'K
Cadet
Posts: 113
Registered for: 12 years 6 months
Car Make: vw
Car Model: Kombi Pannelvan, MK2 CSL
Membership No: missing
Location: Tembisa

Re: 2.0 Block with 16V KR Head

Post by KID'K »

:iagree: 5k for a set of pistons is just not worth it.

Have to look around for a cheaper set.
Image

In this industry nothing just bolts on. you've got to just make it fit.
User avatar
Donavan
Lieutenant
Posts: 1921
Registered for: 17 years 3 months
Location: Ruimsig

Re: 2.0 Block with 16V KR Head

Post by Donavan »

You can use Nissan or Bmw pistons

Mazda Astina pistons will fit in a short block 9A/KR

Corrected.......
Last edited by Donavan on Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:01 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Audi A4 B8 2.0T - Daily
Audi A3 8L 2.0T 20V - Race Car - viewtopic.php?f=11&t=205201
EX: Mk 1 2 Door - 2L 16V Turbo
Torker
General
Posts: 9591
Registered for: 18 years
Car Make: VW
Car Model: Golf GT
Membership No: 1464
Location: Springs

Re: 2.0 Block with 16V KR Head

Post by Torker »

Donavan wrote:U can use 1800 mazda astina pistons or nissan piston or even bmw ones.
Yes, I've got Nissan pistons in my ABF...
Current rides:

VW Golf - 83 GT 2.1 16V 2-door with throttles
VW Golf - 78 LS 2.0 8V 4-door (2.1 ABF with throttles in progress)
VW Golf - '08 Citi Storm - 1.4 for now
Hyundai - 1.4 Getz (daily)
User avatar
KID'K
Cadet
Posts: 113
Registered for: 12 years 6 months
Car Make: vw
Car Model: Kombi Pannelvan, MK2 CSL
Membership No: missing
Location: Tembisa

Re: 2.0 Block with 16V KR Head

Post by KID'K »

Yes, I've got Nissan pistons in my ABF...
Awesome
U can use 1800 mazda astina
How much do these usually go for?
Image

In this industry nothing just bolts on. you've got to just make it fit.
User avatar
Donavan
Lieutenant
Posts: 1921
Registered for: 17 years 3 months
Location: Ruimsig

Re: 2.0 Block with 16V KR Head

Post by Donavan »

KID'K wrote:
Yes, I've got Nissan pistons in my ABF...
Awesome
U can use 1800 mazda astina
How much do these usually go for?
I corrected my post... sorry. The Mazda ones will fit a short block motor.

Use either BMW 323 pistons (correct me if I am wrong, might be the 328 pistons)

Nissan pistons would be the SR20 or 18 pistons.

Try and do some research and compare the overall sizes.
Audi A4 B8 2.0T - Daily
Audi A3 8L 2.0T 20V - Race Car - viewtopic.php?f=11&t=205201
EX: Mk 1 2 Door - 2L 16V Turbo
User avatar
KID'K
Cadet
Posts: 113
Registered for: 12 years 6 months
Car Make: vw
Car Model: Kombi Pannelvan, MK2 CSL
Membership No: missing
Location: Tembisa

Re: 2.0 Block with 16V KR Head

Post by KID'K »

Use either BMW 323 pistons
Are these from the E30 or E36 BMW?

Will both Nissan and BMW Pistons work with the standard 2E conrords or will I have to source specific conrods?
Image

In this industry nothing just bolts on. you've got to just make it fit.
User avatar
Donavan
Lieutenant
Posts: 1921
Registered for: 17 years 3 months
Location: Ruimsig

Re: 2.0 Block with 16V KR Head

Post by Donavan »

e36

just make sure that the wrist pin diameters is the same, should be 21 iirc
Audi A4 B8 2.0T - Daily
Audi A3 8L 2.0T 20V - Race Car - viewtopic.php?f=11&t=205201
EX: Mk 1 2 Door - 2L 16V Turbo
User avatar
KID'K
Cadet
Posts: 113
Registered for: 12 years 6 months
Car Make: vw
Car Model: Kombi Pannelvan, MK2 CSL
Membership No: missing
Location: Tembisa

Re: 2.0 Block with 16V KR Head

Post by KID'K »

Thanks Guys :grin: . I will check both the Nissan and BMW Pistons.
Image

In this industry nothing just bolts on. you've got to just make it fit.
User avatar
KID'K
Cadet
Posts: 113
Registered for: 12 years 6 months
Car Make: vw
Car Model: Kombi Pannelvan, MK2 CSL
Membership No: missing
Location: Tembisa

Re: 2.0 Block with 16V KR Head

Post by KID'K »

Yes, I've got Nissan pistons in my ABF...
Use either BMW 323 pistons
A quick question, what was your Compression ratio reading with the Above Pistons compared to the standard ABF which is 10.5:1?
Image

In this industry nothing just bolts on. you've got to just make it fit.
Torker
General
Posts: 9591
Registered for: 18 years
Car Make: VW
Car Model: Golf GT
Membership No: 1464
Location: Springs

Re: 2.0 Block with 16V KR Head

Post by Torker »

KID'K wrote:
Yes, I've got Nissan pistons in my ABF...
Use either BMW 323 pistons
A quick question, what was your Compression ratio reading with the Above Pistons compared to the standard ABF which is 10.5:1?
In my case it's a bit more complicated as I'm running a TDi crank and 84mm Nissan pistons, my c/r comes to 10.7:1. I don't know which Nissan piston Sarel used, I know it's one that comes standard with ceramic coating.
Current rides:

VW Golf - 83 GT 2.1 16V 2-door with throttles
VW Golf - 78 LS 2.0 8V 4-door (2.1 ABF with throttles in progress)
VW Golf - '08 Citi Storm - 1.4 for now
Hyundai - 1.4 Getz (daily)
User avatar
KID'K
Cadet
Posts: 113
Registered for: 12 years 6 months
Car Make: vw
Car Model: Kombi Pannelvan, MK2 CSL
Membership No: missing
Location: Tembisa

Re: 2.0 Block with 16V KR Head

Post by KID'K »

a TDi crank and 84mm Nissan pistons, my c/r comes to 10.7:1.
Flip, that MK1 must be one hell of ghost to catch. :driving:
Image

In this industry nothing just bolts on. you've got to just make it fit.
Jihaad
Cadet
Posts: 143
Registered for: 12 years 6 months
Car Make: Vw
Car Model: Caddy Pickup
Location: Cape Town

Re: 2.0 Block with 16V KR Head

Post by Jihaad »

Torker you using the CA 20 piston ,its semi forged. I'm currently using the Nissan CA18 which is domed.

If i should do it all over again I will go with CA20 option or BMW piston.



Torker wrote:
KID'K wrote:
Yes, I've got Nissan pistons in my ABF...
Use either BMW 323 pistons
A quick question, what was your Compression ratio reading with the Above Pistons compared to the standard ABF which is 10.5:1?
In my case it's a bit more complicated as I'm running a TDi crank and 84mm Nissan pistons, my c/r comes to 10.7:1. I don't know which Nissan piston Sarel used, I know it's one that comes standard with ceramic coating.
User avatar
KID'K
Cadet
Posts: 113
Registered for: 12 years 6 months
Car Make: vw
Car Model: Kombi Pannelvan, MK2 CSL
Membership No: missing
Location: Tembisa

Re: 2.0 Block with 16V KR Head

Post by KID'K »

Hi All,

Thank you for the advice. After intense budgeting and saving I have managed to source the following for this build:
* 16V KR head with oil pump, Auxiliary shaft with pulley and crank shaft pulley. (I am planning on keeping the cylinder head standard for now - No head-work and cams to be done)
* Toyota 43mm RXI throttles with 8 valve performance RXI to VW throttle body adapter
* Complete 2.0 ADY Sub Assembly with 210mm flywheel & clutch setup and a VW 020 AEN gearbox.

I am looking at fitting the nissan CA18 Turbo or CA20 DET standard pistons I think the standard bore for the CA 18 is 83mm IIRC, besides re-boring the block to 83mm and ensuring the wrist pin of the piston is 21mm (same size as the ADY con-rods). Please advise what else needs to be done for this build to be a success.

I remember going through some older posts where Torker mentioned that the block will have to be decked and I was also looking at the CA18 turbo pistons, they look a bit flat topped compared to the original VW 16v pistons. Do these pistons need to be machined in order to clear the valves or will they clear without any modifications to them too?

Please feel free to advice on any other engineering work that needs to be done on the block and pistons to fit the 16V head. Please also note that I am looking at building a mild 16V daily with throttles and not a full on race car. :grin:
Image

In this industry nothing just bolts on. you've got to just make it fit.
User avatar
mike65
Cadet
Posts: 115
Registered for: 8 years 9 months
Car Make: vw
Car Model: mk1
Location: south africa-port elizabeth

Re: 2.0 Block with 16V KR Head

Post by mike65 »

KID'K wrote:Hi guys, I've recently acquired a 16valve KR head from a friend of mine. the head came complete with cams and Manifolds, I am currently working on a golf MK2 and I would like to fit this head on to a 2.0 ADY/2E/AGG Sub-assembly and Run it with an aftermarket EMU. I have done some research on the forum and to my understanding the head will be a direct fit on the block, no modification should be done to head for it to fit, the 8valve pistons have to be decked by 5mm or so to for valve clearance and the 8v distributor should not be removed from the block since it runs the oil pump on the 8V block, here are some things I would like to know about this conversion:

1. Since the 16v Head did not come with any of the pulleys from the KR Block will the 2E block’s pulleys work fine with this head without any modification. If not what should be done to the pulleys to accommodate this head? no you will need 16v pulleys on crank alt and waterpump and you need the 16v gear to fit on the crank.also the 16v and 8v intermediate shaft is not the same and cant use 8v shaft on 16v pump or the other around.to use the 8v pump setup you need to find a way to get the 16v shaft pulley on the 8v shaft then you wil be sorted...im busy with this and will let you know of a way around it

2. Since I'll be running EFI which fuel rail would be best to use on the Head, where can I get one at a reasonable price? Will the OEM (MP9) Injectors work perfectly with the 16V head or should I opt for bigger injectors for better performance? you can use the mp9 rail setup but it needs some work as the holes of the injectors dont lighn up or get a custom built one.

3. Which head gasket would be best for the conversion? victor heinz

4.I have also read on the forum that the 210mm spring centered copper clutch is the best clutch to use on a high revving motor with the FFZ gearbox, I would like to know how much am I looking at for the clutch and where can I get it from I'm based in Kempton Park. this i cant help you with as im going to run valeo kit with hopes it will be soft



Please feel free to advice on any other thing that needs to be done to the Head/Block to make this conversion work.


Many thanks
Metja
Watch this space
User avatar
mike65
Cadet
Posts: 115
Registered for: 8 years 9 months
Car Make: vw
Car Model: mk1
Location: south africa-port elizabeth

Re: 2.0 Block with 16V KR Head

Post by mike65 »

o yes before i forget if you decide to run the 16v oil pump and shaft then you will need the oil drive gear and thats not a easy find
Watch this space
Post Reply