Paint Correction

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Rsi huntered
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Paint Correction

Post by Rsi huntered »

howzit guys,

so with all the reading and consultation via pm's( to Lawrence- thanks for this) i have decided to give my car another go :grin:

the funny part is that i didnt get much before pics but will try and find some.... was to eager to get started and trying to get a decent picture of the paint without proper lighting is really really hard :crazy:

started this on thursday and finished on saturday morning(as i just took off the sealant on Saturday morning) so basically finished friday evening at about 18:30

so her goes :

Settled with Products and Pads :

1. Clayed using Meguairs ( which i still had lefet over) coupled with ONR(smell really good :grin: )
2. Menzerna PF2500 with Yellow Pad..... was happy at first but at the end, i was not totally happy with the out come and decided to go up one notch with:
3.Menzerna PF 2500 on White Pad..... gave me abit more cut for the swirls that i had(swirls are not 100% gone but then i think that comes with more practice?)

4. Finishing was Menzerna SF4000 coupled with black pad
5. sealed with Power Lock

Final Product......

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image



comments welcomed......

stupid question....... how do you know if you was making to many passes with the polish? i made about 3 passes at first(vertical/horizontal) then another 3 in total vertical/horizontal passes again and stopped they about 3/4 passes with the SF4000
Last edited by Rsi huntered on Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kyle
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Re: Paint Correction

Post by Kyle »

Looks awesome dude, well done :hurray:
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Rsi huntered
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Re: Paint Correction

Post by Rsi huntered »

Kyle wrote:Looks awesome dude, well done :hurray:
thanks bud :cool:
Golf 6 Ed. 35 - 2013 (FR&R Tuned)
Tiguan 2018 R-Line :evil:
Polo 6C Ex
2004 Golf 1 Baby 1.4i +VAT :evil: 76.3 WHP@K.A.R
Polo 2008(9n3)Ex:-(
Golf 1(2 door)branch,exhaust,domingo's,leather seats,electric windows, 2.0L 16v ( sold ) :cry: Ex.
Golf 2 2L 16v full house(RIP) :bang: Ex
Jetta 2 1.8 16v full house(sold) Ex
ruthless roy
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Re: Paint Correction

Post by ruthless roy »

Thats a job well done man... :thumbup:
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Re: Paint Correction

Post by lawrence »

:hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray:

Really nicely done bud.

Rsi huntered wrote:howzit guys,

so with all the reading and consultation via pm's( to Lawrence- thanks for this) Only a pleasure bud :cool: i have decided to give my car another go :grin:

the funny part is that i didnt get much before pics but will try and find some.... was to eager to get started and trying to get a decent picture of the paint without proper lighting is really really hard :crazy: Yes it is. Light is VERY important. It is light being reflected off uneven surfaces and away from your eyes that makes your paint look 'dull'. It is light catching the sharp edges of below surface defects that make swirls / scratches etc stand out (or to a large extend blend in [on silver and white cars] because we see scratches as a silvery whitish color). It is light that is refracted through LSP's of varying densities that changes 'the look'. It is light that makes a decent picture. It is light (in the case of pictures of cars in the shade) that can fool our eyes into believing paint looks better than it does.


started this on thursday and finished on saturday morning(as i just took off the sealant on Saturday morning) so basically finished friday evening at about 18:30

so her goes :

Settled with Products and Pads :

1. Clayed using Meguairs ( which i still had left over) coupled with ONR(smell really good :grin: )
2. Menzerna PF2500 with Yellow Pad..... was happy at first but at the end, i was not totally happy with the out come and decided to go up one notch with:
3.Menzerna PF 2500 on White Pad..... gave me abit more cut for the swirls that i had(swirls are not 100% gone but then i think that comes with more practice?)
4. Finishing was Menzerna SF4000 coupled with black pad
5. sealed with Power Lock

stupid question....... No such thing bud.... we all learn by asking questions how do you know if you was making to many passes with the polish? i made about 3 passes at first(vertical/horizontal) then another 3 in total vertical/horizontal passes again and stopped they about 3/4 passes with the SF4000

To simplify the explanation I will use Meguiars M105 (or the OTC counter equivalent Ultimate Compound) and M205 (or the OTC counter equivalent Ultimate Polish) and FG400 and SF4000 (Menzerna's equivalents).

Meguiars are 'SMAT' based - Singular Micro Abrasive Technology
Menzerna are 'DAT' based - Diminishing Abrasive Technology

They manner in which the polishes work is fundamentally different.

Let's start with the Meguiars....

-The abrasive particles they use remain the same size and shape no matter how long you work them.
-This means that if you are using for example Ultimate Compound, and you make 2 passes (1 covering the working area in overlapping vertical passes, followed by another but this time horizontal passes), stop and inspect your paint, and the swirls are gone (to your desired level, which may not necessarily be perfect), you can stop polishing.
-The advantage is that as you are able to make less passes, you finish quicker
-A disadvantage, IMO (especially for people new to machine polishing) is that let's say you do correct the paint in 2 passes, but because you have not yet mastered the art of evenly polishing convex panels for example, you may not have covered everywhere in those passes, and therefore have to actually polish more, and remove more paint in doing so. In other words, the longer working time is often a desired trait in certain circumstances (for example very hot days, very complex body panels etc).

By contrast, the Menzerna polishes

-Think of a bunch of grapes.... that is how your abrasive 'particle' starts off (big)...as you polish, the grapes break off the 'bunch' and become smaller individual grapes... polish some more and the grapes break down into seeds.... polish some more and the seeds break down into powder...They diminish as you work them.
-This means that if you are using for example SF4000, and you made your 2 passes, and happened to stop and check, there is a very good chance that the polish would not have broken down sufficiently, and will 'scour' the paint, leaving a less than ideal finish.... so you have to work the polish 'through its buffing cycle' to allow the abrasives time to break down...
-The disadvantage is that as your polishing time often increases
-An advantage, IMO (especially for people new to machine polishing) is that when for example you are polishing convex panels the longer working time allows you more time to ensure you have got even coverage - or put another way UMR - uniform material removal. As long as you remember that the bulk of your cutting action happens when the abrasives are like bunches of grapes on pass 1 and 2, then you have a medium cut on passes 3 and 4 with the grapes and finally use the fine seeds for passes 5 and 6 to finesse the finish. Menzerna polishes all also show you when the abrasives have broken down as the polish turns a translucent color


So I think you probably underworked SF4000 and therefore could have achieved a better gloss out of the paint, had you broken it down fully - you can literally work a polish like SF4000 as long as you wanted to as long as it remained 'wet' (a visible wet trail behind you) and you weren't dry buffing from all the lubricants drying out)... of course the issue of residue control would come into play, but that is a topic for another day :grin: )

Secondly, remember that each polish can be attributed a 'cut' factor [how much paint is removed scored out of 10] and a 'finish' factor (the condition it leaves the paint in [free of its own micro-marring])

So in the combos you used this is what you more than likely did in terms of cut and finish (your technique aside - just the combos' capabilities).

PF2500
You can substitute your Menz Yellow pad for somewhere around the Green or White pads on the chart and your White pad for the Orange one on the chart
PF2500.jpg
SF4000
SF4000.jpg
I would put your paint somewhere between the chart on the left and the middle one....[/color]
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N3mo
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Re: Paint Correction

Post by N3mo »

Nicely done
ruthless roy
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Re: Paint Correction

Post by ruthless roy »

lawrence wrote::hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray:

Really nicely done bud.

Rsi huntered wrote:howzit guys,

so with all the reading and consultation via pm's( to Lawrence- thanks for this) Only a pleasure bud :cool: i have decided to give my car another go :grin:

the funny part is that i didnt get much before pics but will try and find some.... was to eager to get started and trying to get a decent picture of the paint without proper lighting is really really hard :crazy: Yes it is. Light is VERY important. It is light being reflected off uneven surfaces and away from your eyes that makes your paint look 'dull'. It is light catching the sharp edges of below surface defects that make swirls / scratches etc stand out (or to a large extend blend in [on silver and white cars] because we see scratches as a silvery whitish color). It is light that is refracted through LSP's of varying densities that changes 'the look'. It is light that makes a decent picture. It is light (in the case of pictures of cars in the shade) that can fool our eyes into believing paint looks better than it does.


started this on thursday and finished on saturday morning(as i just took off the sealant on Saturday morning) so basically finished friday evening at about 18:30

so her goes :

Settled with Products and Pads :

1. Clayed using Meguairs ( which i still had left over) coupled with ONR(smell really good :grin: )
2. Menzerna PF2500 with Yellow Pad..... was happy at first but at the end, i was not totally happy with the out come and decided to go up one notch with:
3.Menzerna PF 2500 on White Pad..... gave me abit more cut for the swirls that i had(swirls are not 100% gone but then i think that comes with more practice?)
4. Finishing was Menzerna SF4000 coupled with black pad
5. sealed with Power Lock

stupid question....... No such thing bud.... we all learn by asking questions how do you know if you was making to many passes with the polish? i made about 3 passes at first(vertical/horizontal) then another 3 in total vertical/horizontal passes again and stopped they about 3/4 passes with the SF4000

To simplify the explanation I will use Meguiars M105 (or the OTC counter equivalent Ultimate Compound) and M205 (or the OTC counter equivalent Ultimate Polish) and FG400 and SF4000 (Menzerna's equivalents).

Meguiars are 'SMAT' based - Singular Micro Abrasive Technology
Menzerna are 'DAT' based - Diminishing Abrasive Technology

They manner in which the polishes work is fundamentally different.

Let's start with the Meguiars....

-The abrasive particles they use remain the same size and shape no matter how long you work them.
-This means that if you are using for example Ultimate Compound, and you make 2 passes (1 covering the working area in overlapping vertical passes, followed by another but this time horizontal passes), stop and inspect your paint, and the swirls are gone (to your desired level, which may not necessarily be perfect), you can stop polishing.
-The advantage is that as you are able to make less passes, you finish quicker
-A disadvantage, IMO (especially for people new to machine polishing) is that let's say you do correct the paint in 2 passes, but because you have not yet mastered the art of evenly polishing convex panels for example, you may not have covered everywhere in those passes, and therefore have to actually polish more, and remove more paint in doing so. In other words, the longer working time is often a desired trait in certain circumstances (for example very hot days, very complex body panels etc).

By contrast, the Menzerna polishes

-Think of a bunch of grapes.... that is how your abrasive 'particle' starts off (big)...as you polish, the grapes break off the 'bunch' and become smaller individual grapes... polish some more and the grapes break down into seeds.... polish some more and the seeds break down into powder...They diminish as you work them.
-This means that if you are using for example SF4000, and you made your 2 passes, and happened to stop and check, there is a very good chance that the polish would not have broken down sufficiently, and will 'scour' the paint, leaving a less than ideal finish.... so you have to work the polish 'through its buffing cycle' to allow the abrasives time to break down...
-The disadvantage is that as your polishing time often increases
-An advantage, IMO (especially for people new to machine polishing) is that when for example you are polishing convex panels the longer working time allows you more time to ensure you have got even coverage - or put another way UMR - uniform material removal. As long as you remember that the bulk of your cutting action happens when the abrasives are like bunches of grapes on pass 1 and 2, then you have a medium cut on passes 3 and 4 with the grapes and finally use the fine seeds for passes 5 and 6 to finesse the finish. Menzerna polishes all also show you when the abrasives have broken down as the polish turns a translucent color


So I think you probably underworked SF4000 and therefore could have achieved a better gloss out of the paint, had you broken it down fully - you can literally work a polish like SF4000 as long as you wanted to as long as it remained 'wet' (a visible wet trail behind you) and you weren't dry buffing from all the lubricants drying out)... of course the issue of residue control would come into play, but that is a topic for another day :grin: )

Secondly, remember that each polish can be attributed a 'cut' factor [how much paint is removed scored out of 10] and a 'finish' factor (the condition it leaves the paint in [free of its own micro-marring])

So in the combos you used this is what you more than likely did in terms of cut and finish (your technique aside - just the combos' capabilities).

PF2500
You can substitute your Menz Yellow pad for somewhere around the Green or White pads on the chart and your White pad for the Orange one on the chart
PF2500.jpg
SF4000
SF4000.jpg
I would put your paint somewhere between the chart on the left and the middle one....[/color]
This is why we put up with your essays... :grin:

Thanks for that man - useful information all round... :thumbup:
Rsi huntered
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Re: Paint Correction

Post by Rsi huntered »

thanks guys :cool:

and as always....thanks Lawrence :cool: :hurray: :hurray:
Golf 6 Ed. 35 - 2013 (FR&R Tuned)
Tiguan 2018 R-Line :evil:
Polo 6C Ex
2004 Golf 1 Baby 1.4i +VAT :evil: 76.3 WHP@K.A.R
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Rsi huntered
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Re: Paint Correction - Updated

Post by Rsi huntered »

HI Guys,

taught id share my update on my cabbie this weekend :

Cyclo CM30 diluted ( Sprayed on hinges, inside fenders, rims and calipers)
Washed : Maxi Suds
dryed : Drying towel
Iron X ( forgot the brand but from Crazy detailer)
Rinsed
Poor Boys Glaze for dark cars ( with black menzerna pad and DA machine with speed 2.5/3
Sealed with Collinite 476 left for 15mins and wiped off.

sorry couldnt get better pics as i finished at night and the next day so it rained so i have one with normal and one with beading :grin:

tell me what you think.

Image

Image
Golf 6 Ed. 35 - 2013 (FR&R Tuned)
Tiguan 2018 R-Line :evil:
Polo 6C Ex
2004 Golf 1 Baby 1.4i +VAT :evil: 76.3 WHP@K.A.R
Polo 2008(9n3)Ex:-(
Golf 1(2 door)branch,exhaust,domingo's,leather seats,electric windows, 2.0L 16v ( sold ) :cry: Ex.
Golf 2 2L 16v full house(RIP) :bang: Ex
Jetta 2 1.8 16v full house(sold) Ex
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Abnormal
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Re: Paint Correction - Updated

Post by Abnormal »

Rsi huntered wrote:HI Guys,

taught id share my update on my cabbie this weekend :

Cyclo CM30 diluted ( Sprayed on hinges, inside fenders, rims and calipers)
Washed : Maxi Suds
dryed : Drying towel
Iron X ( forgot the brand but from Crazy detailer)
Rinsed
Poor Boys Glaze for dark cars ( with black menzerna pad and DA machine with speed 2.5/3
Sealed with Collinite 476 left for 15mins and wiped off.

sorry couldnt get better pics as i finished at night and the next day so it rained so i have one with normal and one with beading :grin:

tell me what you think.

Image

Image

looking good.

Let me know when you are ready to do mine.
\Oo) \ _w_ / (oO/
Rsi huntered
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Re: Paint Correction

Post by Rsi huntered »

Lol thanks bud...... hard work went into this :grin:
Golf 6 Ed. 35 - 2013 (FR&R Tuned)
Tiguan 2018 R-Line :evil:
Polo 6C Ex
2004 Golf 1 Baby 1.4i +VAT :evil: 76.3 WHP@K.A.R
Polo 2008(9n3)Ex:-(
Golf 1(2 door)branch,exhaust,domingo's,leather seats,electric windows, 2.0L 16v ( sold ) :cry: Ex.
Golf 2 2L 16v full house(RIP) :bang: Ex
Jetta 2 1.8 16v full house(sold) Ex
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Re: Paint Correction

Post by Morné Pieters »

Looks good buddy, keep it up :hurray: :hurray: :hurray:
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